Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:16 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:While I was watching the rugger the other day my daughter volunteered the opinion that the world cup teams should be mixed - it was the 'World Cup' after all, so it should have everybody in the world taking part, half of which are women. I pointed out that the physical nature of the game probably precluded men and women matching each other in contact situations, which she admitted, but then she went on to say that football (soccer) was basically a non-contact sport, and cricket, and golf, darts, snooker, cycling, rowing, and a few others. She also said that things like the shooting, archery were skills of co-ordination not strength, and then listed a few more; gymnastics, figure skating, fencing, and some others. Turns out that while I was in front of the telly she'd been talking on facebook with some of her friends whose dad's had also been swearing at the television. I must admit that I couldn't come up with a reason why most of the sports she mentioned couldn't or shouldn't be made up of mixed teams. She's 16. Does that make her a man-hating feminist Dave?
Well, there is nothing stopping women from trying out for various teams. The thing is, that even in the less physical sports that you listed, women just don't compete well in comparison to men.

Take golf, you can allow women all you want compete against the men, but unless you made it a rule that each golf foursome had to have two women on it, the teams would generally be all male, with very, very few exceptions, because so many more men are much better than even the best women.

If you force two women on each foursome in golf, then you'll just have worse golf played.

Similarly, women aren't kept off of men's soccer teams because they ware women. Women are kept off because they are generally not as competitive -- they are slower and don't shoot as hard, for example. Don't get me wrong, I love women's soccer and I found that in the World Cup, it's as fun to watch the women as it is the men, and in some respects the women's play is more fun to watch because it doesn't have as much diving and faking of injuries. But, that doesn't change the fact that men overall are far better at soccer than women overall.

This is true even in amateur games. I've played soccer for much of my life, in school and recreational adult leagues. When we play on men only teams, the games are competitive and hard fought. When you play on mixed teams of men and women, it's "just for fun" and none of the men actually play hard. You often just let the women run a bit, because you don't want to be a dick and take the ball away from them. You never drive them off the ball, slide tackle them, etc. You just don't play hard. Often, if you're racing to the ball as a woman is doing the same, you'll just sort of lay off a bit. Nothing makes a guy look worse than playing hard against a woman -- you just have to govern your play such that she doesn't get by you or score on you, but not so hard that it looks like you're kind of beating up on her.

The rules in recreational soccer and mixed groups can get really stupid because of the mixed groups. They have rules requiring minimum numbers of women, and in one league, they required that men and women alternate as goaltender, but when a woman was in the goal the men couldn't shoot. They had to pass to a woman to shoot. That's fun if you're just dicking around to have a bit of exercise and include the wives and girlfriends, but it's no way to really play the sport.

For middle school and teenage boys, it's very very difficult. Many leagues make the kids play in mixed sex groups, but the girls learn fast that they can take advantage of the boys, for the very reason that the boys can't play hard against them. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If you get beat out for the ball by a girl, you are embarrased, and if you play hard against them you look like a bully.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:19 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:While I was watching the rugger the other day my daughter volunteered the opinion that the world cup teams should be mixed - it was the 'World Cup' after all, so it should have everybody in the world taking part, half of which are women. I pointed out that the physical nature of the game probably precluded men and women matching each other in contact situations, which she admitted, but then she went on to say that football (soccer) was basically a non-contact sport, and cricket, and golf, darts, snooker, cycling, rowing, and a few others. She also said that things like the shooting, archery were skills of co-ordination not strength, and then listed a few more; gymnastics, figure skating, fencing, and some others. Turns out that while I was in front of the telly she'd been talking on facebook with some of her friends whose dad's had also been swearing at the television. I must admit that I couldn't come up with a reason why most of the sports she mentioned couldn't or shouldn't be made up of mixed teams. She's 16. Does that make her a man-hating feminist Dave?
No, it just means she doesn't understand body dimorphism aka biology and evolution especially human evolution. Women competing against men would be crushed even in sports that don't require physical strength. Boasting about this by men would be crass and pathetic, as it is just biology. Being the first women to climb everest or in space should be equally lauded even if hundreds of men have done it before because the challenge is greater for women. Having mixed teams would have the men covering for the women (through no fault of their own.) The same could be said for intellectual pursuits as men have 10% more brain power than women percentage wise even when they are the same size and body weight. Equal rights for everybody as nobody can argue with that but expecting equal outcome is anti-science and stupid.
OK. So men are just inherently better than women at everything, whether it requires physical strength or not? Men do have, should be granted, bragging rights in everything? Really?

Please substantiate the assertion that men are 10% clever than women.


“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by DaveDodo007 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:54 am

Brian Peacock wrote:You boast that women competing against men would be crushed even in sports that don't require physical strength, but suggest that boasting would be bad form because it's not men's fault that they're better at every and any sport than a woman can ever be - it's evolution that just makes teh mens teh bestest at everything. Not boasting while boasting much?

You're failure to support your assertion that men 10% more brainy than women has been noted.

Oh, and...
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:The whole point of this thread is to show all feminist are man haters,
Image
... isn't an ad hom or a shaming :violin: it's ridicule in the face of your continuing fallacious generalisations.
I said women would not be able to compete with men in any competitive event that is sports or games related. So instead of just admitting this is true (as if I can't provide loads of evidence for this.) You come back trying to make out I claimed 'men rule, women drool' bullshit. Sport is only one facet of society and hardly impacts on civilization as a whole.
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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:33 pm

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:You boast that women competing against men would be crushed even in sports that don't require physical strength, but suggest that boasting would be bad form because it's not men's fault that they're better at every and any sport than a woman can ever be - it's evolution that just makes teh mens teh bestest at everything. Not boasting while boasting much?

You're failure to support your assertion that men 10% more brainy than women has been noted.

Oh, and...
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:The whole point of this thread is to show all feminist are man haters,
Image
... isn't an ad hom or a shaming :violin: it's ridicule in the face of your continuing fallacious generalisations.
I said women would not be able to compete with men in any competitive event that is sports or games related. So instead of just admitting this is true (as if I can't provide loads of evidence for this.) You come back trying to make out I claimed 'men rule, women drool' bullshit. Sport is only one facet of society and hardly impacts on civilization as a whole.
What you said was:
Ddd wrote:Women competing against men would be crushed even in sports that don't require physical strength.
I don't see any obligation to accept this as true, and it would take only one women being higher placed that all the men in a mixed competition to prove you wrong.

Image
Dec 2014

Charlotte Dujardin broke her own grand prix world record on the London International Horse Show’s opening night at Olympia.

The reigning Olympic, world and European champion returned to competitive action just 48 hours after finishing fourth in the BBC Sports Personality of the Year poll behind Lewis Hamilton, Rory McIlroy and Jo Pavey. The 29-year-old delivered a blistering performance on the multi-gold-medal-winning horse Valegro to take the Reem Acra FEI World Cup grand prix class with a score of 87.46%. It eclipsed the combination’s previous best of 87.129% set at the World Cup final in France this year.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/d ... w-dressage
Ooo, look. You've been shown to be wrong again. Your assertion that sport isn't important or relevant is pure wibbly-woo: as an activity it simply reflects an area of human endeavour, essentially no different to any other, and besides, its only you making generalisations about the capacity of the sexes based on evidence-free claims about sporting performance.

You're failure to support your assertion that men are 10% more brainy than women is still noted.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Forty Two » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:41 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:You boast that women competing against men would be crushed even in sports that don't require physical strength, but suggest that boasting would be bad form because it's not men's fault that they're better at every and any sport than a woman can ever be - it's evolution that just makes teh mens teh bestest at everything. Not boasting while boasting much?

You're failure to support your assertion that men 10% more brainy than women has been noted.

Oh, and...
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:The whole point of this thread is to show all feminist are man haters,
Image
... isn't an ad hom or a shaming :violin: it's ridicule in the face of your continuing fallacious generalisations.
I said women would not be able to compete with men in any competitive event that is sports or games related. So instead of just admitting this is true (as if I can't provide loads of evidence for this.) You come back trying to make out I claimed 'men rule, women drool' bullshit. Sport is only one facet of society and hardly impacts on civilization as a whole.
What you said was:
Ddd wrote:Women competing against men would be crushed even in sports that don't require physical strength.
I don't see any obligation to accept this as true, and it would take only one women being higher placed that all the men in a mixed competition to prove you wrong.

Image
Dec 2014

Charlotte Dujardin broke her own grand prix world record on the London International Horse Show’s opening night at Olympia.

The reigning Olympic, world and European champion returned to competitive action just 48 hours after finishing fourth in the BBC Sports Personality of the Year poll behind Lewis Hamilton, Rory McIlroy and Jo Pavey. The 29-year-old delivered a blistering performance on the multi-gold-medal-winning horse Valegro to take the Reem Acra FEI World Cup grand prix class with a score of 87.46%. It eclipsed the combination’s previous best of 87.129% set at the World Cup final in France this year.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/d ... w-dressage
Ooo, look. You've been shown to be wrong again. Your assertion that sport isn't important or relevant is pure wibbly-woo: as an activity it simply reflects an area of human endeavour, essentially no different to any other, and besides, its only you making generalisations about the capacity of the sexes based on evidence-free claims about sporting performance.

You're failure to support your assertion that men are 10% more brainy than women is still noted.
There are women who are better than men at given sports. For example, the American women's world cup soccer team is far better than me, and far better than most men, at soccer. However, that doesn't change the fact that overall, statistically, men tend to be better soccer players than women, particular men who strive to play soccer or actually play soccer regularly. This is not controversial.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:30 pm

So your point is that....
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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by DaveDodo007 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:59 pm

We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by rainbow » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:47 am

Yes, these all fail to support your assertion, DaveDildo.

...so can we take that as an admission that you're absolutely clueless?

Alternatively, we'll just have to assume that you don't even know how clueless you are.


Either way the point is made.
I call bullshit - Alfred E Einstein
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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:50 am

:smoke:
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Forty Two » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:36 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:So your point is that....
Point of fact.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:34 pm

rainbow wrote:
Yes, these all fail to support your assertion, DaveDildo.

...so can we take that as an admission that you're absolutely clueless?

Alternatively, we'll just have to assume that you don't even know how clueless you are.


Either way the point is made.
Men's brains are on average 10% bigger than female brains, this is a fact. Though to be fair I'm not sure what 'brainy' means and I need a definition.
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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Hermit » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:12 pm

"Emotional IQ" in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:18 pm

Just to be clear about what I meant by 'brainy': What DDd7 said was....
DaveDodo007 wrote:...The same could be said for intellectual pursuits as men have 10% more brain power than women percentage wise even when they are the same size and body weight.

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 0#p1624619
There is no conceivable way DDd7 can justify that he was ever just talking about brain mass and not intellectual capacity.

So DaveDodo007, the dodgy citations aside, why do you really think that girls are more stupid that boys?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by rainbow » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:16 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Yes, these all fail to support your assertion, DaveDildo.

...so can we take that as an admission that you're absolutely clueless?

Alternatively, we'll just have to assume that you don't even know how clueless you are.


Either way the point is made.
Men's brains are on average 10% bigger than female brains, this is a fact. Though to be fair I'm not sure what 'brainy' means and I need a definition.
You need more than a definition, DaveDildo.
All that extra brain mass, and you still can't put forward a decent argument.
:thinks: What does that tell you about brain mass and intelligence?
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Re: Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

Post by DaveDodo007 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:59 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:Just to be clear about what I meant by 'brainy': What DDd7 said was....
DaveDodo007 wrote:...The same could be said for intellectual pursuits as men have 10% more brain power than women percentage wise even when they are the same size and body weight.

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 0#p1624619
There is no conceivable way DDd7 can justify that he was ever just talking about brain mass and not intellectual capacity.

So DaveDodo007, the dodgy citations aside, why do you really think that girls are more stupid that boys?

There is an average 3% difference in IQ scores and there is nothing wrong with my links as just asserting they are wrong doesn't cut it. Or I'm I suppose to just listen and believe.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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