Greek Deal

[mistermack]

So they say.

Will it stick? I hope so, but I don't recommend that anyone holds their breath.

What I would recommend is that the EU ministers announce that no change will be made, no matter how tiny. They have to get rid of the uncertainty.
If the Greeks don't take it, they have to be out.

I think this is a mistake. Not for the Greeks, but for the EU. But I'm only guessing.

[PsychoSerenity]

They should wait until they've got the money and then start printing drachmas.

[Brian Peacock]

#thisisacoup

The financial services sector is defining the operating conditions of Greek democracy, to make sure everybody knows who's in charge, and to secure a return on their money within 4 years. That's is why Greece had to undertake a commitment to privatise key public sector services, like the state-owned electricity and telecoms industry, for example, and why, until late last night, the Greeks were supposed to make a 50bn Euro 'good-faith' deposit in a Luxembourg tax shelter. The irony is that less that 10% of the last bail out was spent on the much trumpeted job creation schemes, welfare payments, and cheap loans for small business, as most of it was poured into private banks to artificially maintain share prices and profit margins. The Greeks are being bound into borrowing money from the private finance sector in order to give it to the private finance sector, and everybody knows that being encouraged to go into debt to clear a debt is what loan sharks are all about. In the meantime austerity measures, which so far have singularly failed to provide the result they were supposed to, are to be deepened, communicating a message that the private finance sector must continue as normal and at all costs even if a nation starves to death, or goes feral.

#toobigtofail

[mistermack]

They're in that position purely because of their own actions.
If you've got no money, and need to borrow, you have lost control of your own life.
If you are begging for a loan, people want to know that it IS a loan. If you word can't be trusted, you have to use other measures to convince the lenders.

Nobody owes Greece a thing. It's the other way round.

I'll still be amazed if this sticks. Even though it's far more than Greece should be getting.

[Brian Peacock]

The debt has accrued to bail out the Greek banking sector. Austerity is the cost of maintaining the viability of the banking sector. The banking sector is determining the conditions of democracy.

[JimC]

There will be tears before bedtime, mark my words...

[laklak]

If they don't stop it I'll give them something to cry about, by God.

[klr]

So they say.

Will it stick? I hope so, but I don't recommend that anyone holds their breath.

What I would recommend is that the EU ministers announce that no change will be made, no matter how tiny. They have to get rid of the uncertainty.
If the Greeks don't take it, they have to be out.

I think this is a mistake. Not for the Greeks, but for the EU. But I'm only guessing.

I think the Greeks are already well aware of that, especially with the tight deadline they've been given to pass certain pieces of legislation, some of which they've already done this evening. It's now more a case of what's going to happen a few months down the road.

Anyway, all of this was thoroughly predictable. It was like a scene from The Godfather. Refuse our terms? We'll punish you by making a tougher offer, an offer you can't refuse.

[Brian Peacock]

A lesson the irish learned well.

[klr]

The Greeks riot, the Irish take the piss.

[mistermack]

I can't believe the hostility that the would be lenders are facing.

If there was an investment fund, that you could put your own savings in, to bail out Greece, I'll bet nobody here would risk a penny of their money. I certainly wouldn't.
And if your money was being invested without your permission, you'd want to make damn sure that it would be paid back, in full and on time.

All those billions is taxpayers money. And none of them gave permission for it to be squandered.
And lots of them could do with help themselves.

I'm amazed that they ARE doing it. And pretty sure it's to save face, and pass the buck to the people who inherit their jobs.

The Greeks riot, the Irish take the piss.

Angela's German. She'll get the joke.

[JimC]

Whatever happens, after some sort of deal is done, the ones that will suffer the most will be the poorest of the Greek community. The wealthy tax evaders and corrupt bureaucrats will not end up starving in a gutter...

[Hermit]

Which is exactly what Merkel and the Troika were aiming for. Conservatives have a long and consistent record for pumping more money into other nations' economies than they could afford to repay, then insisting on austerity measures and the selloff of state owned enterprises to reach a settlement, and they succeed with that two card trick every fucking time.

[Brian Peacock]

"How dare you abuse my generosity and disrespect me into the bargain with with these lame excuses. I'll take your daughters and 80% of your crops as a down payment - and we can renegotiate your outstanding balance when I come back in the Spring."

[JimC]

Which is exactly what Merkel and the Troika were aiming for. Conservatives have a long and consistent record for pumping more money into other nations' economies than they could afford to repay, then insisting on austerity measures and the selloff of state owned enterprises to reach a settlement, and they succeed with that two card trick every fucking time.

Agreed, but there is also no denying that years of extremely poor governance, letting tax evasion, corruption and feather-bedding go on at a far bigger scale than most other countries played a part. Greece as a country was run very poorly.

The real point I was making is that, wherever the blame is apportioned, the burden of the financial consequences will fall disproportionally on the very poor, who can scarcely be blamed in any sense.