Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

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mistermack
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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by mistermack » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:37 am

rachelbean wrote:Then she told me the total, for 3 months of BC which was £8 and I actually started laughing out loud, because at home I had paid $130 for 3 months WITH INSURANCE.
It's nice to have someone who knows what they are talking about post about the NHS.

Seth would never tell you that, about US charges.
Anyway, he wouldn't care about extortionate BC costs. The main thing for him is that he's not compelled to spend money.
Does he have car insurance? I'm beginning to doubt it.
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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by Seth » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:43 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Seth wrote:And I'm free not to do business with them if I don't want to...or at least I used to be free. Now I'm compelled to buy insurance from such people by law, which, by the way, I refuse to obey. Eventually they will send out jackbooted thugs with machine guns to try to force me to comply. They will not succeed.
I hope there will be Youtube of this. :tea:
I'll try to have my GoPro up and running, but no guarantees it'll make it out of police custody.
Set up live streaming so it goes out to the internet as it happens.
I'll see what I can do. I've got some Dropcams that upload directly to their servers, that may have to suffice.
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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by Seth » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:53 pm

mistermack wrote:Yes, national insurance is compulsory.
Exactly. You are being forced to pay for other people's health and lifestyle choices without your consent.
I thought that that was so obvious, even idiots wouldn't need it stating.
Evidently it did because you keep insisting all the shit you get from the system is "free." It's not.
Motor insurance is compulsory in the US if you drive.
No, liability insurance to cover damages to others is required, but should not be. However, all I have to do to stop having to pay for such insurance is not drive. I guess all you have to do to stop being forced to pay for other people's health care is drop dead.
How awful. Do they send round jackbooted thugs for the premiums? You poor dears.
Eventually, yes. If I drive without the mandatory liability policy it's a misdemeanor criminal offense and if I resist being arrested forcefully enough you can bet the farm that the machine guns will eventually come out. But I'm not compelled to pay for that insurance, it's a free choice and I can not do so simply by not operating a motor vehicle on a public highway...or by operating someone else's motor vehicle who consents to paying for such insurance.

That's not the case with either the NHS or Obamacare.
In Britain, public liability insurance is compulsory for businesses that might have a liability to the public.
And their choice is to modify their business model so as to avoid that requirement.
It's a good thing. If people run a business that might cause you harm, they don't just say, ''I haven't got the money'' when you claim.
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but that's what insurance is for. If you think you are at risk while engaging in some pursuit, business or recreational, then it behooves you to buy an insurance policy that will cover you against the perils involved in that activity. That is how insurance works, don't you see? It's designed so YOU get to assess your risks and exposures to liability and decide how much you want to cover. If you fail to cover yourself adequately, then you suffer the consequences of your poor judgment. On the other hand, if you do something that harms someone else, if they failed to cover themselves against that peril in their own insurance policy and you are "judgment proof" in that you have nothing of value they can seize under court order, then they get to suffer the consequences of their poor judgment.

Why should I be required to insure everyone else in society against some potential harm I might cause? If you want to be insured against my actions, then buy your own insurance policy and leave me out of it unless and until I harm you, and then you can sue me for damages.
It's all good stuff. But National Health insurance is the best value of all, because there's no middle man.
Wanna bet? Do you really think that every dime you have forcibly extracted from your wallet for NHS goes to health care...ANYBODY'S health care?

If you do, you're a fool.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by JimC » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:18 am

Your libertarian objections apply just as well to income tax. Why haven't you already died in a hail of bullets as you attempt to fend of the IRS? :tea:
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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by Seth » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:18 am

JimC wrote:Your libertarian objections apply just as well to income tax. Why haven't you already died in a hail of bullets as you attempt to fend of the IRS? :tea:
What makes you think I pay income tax?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by JimC » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:55 am

Not enough income, I suppose...

:console:
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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by mistermack » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:00 am

I have a choice not to pay national insurance.
Just don't have a job.

Similar choice to his choice not to drive.

Seth's arguments destroyed in seconds. Again. :cheer:
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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by Hermit » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:28 pm

You forgot about the unalienable right to be a wage slave, didn't you?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by Seth » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:09 pm

JimC wrote:Not enough income, I suppose...

:console:
Not enough TAXABLE income...that they know about.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by Seth » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:11 pm

mistermack wrote:I have a choice not to pay national insurance.
Just don't have a job.

Similar choice to his choice not to drive.

Seth's arguments destroyed in seconds. Again. :cheer:
Well, that's a fair point about your forcible contribution but it merely reinforces the argument that you would then be even more of a social leech and thief than you are if you contribute anything. Both situations are equally immoral. Why should anyone else have to pay your expenses? You've never adequately addressed that particular part of the equation.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by mistermack » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:17 pm

Seth wrote:Why should anyone else have to pay your expenses? You've never adequately addressed that particular part of the equation.
Because I'm equally happy to pay theirs.
And because this is what we choose, as a nation.

That's what being a nation is all about. You get together and decide things as a group. And then enforce them on those who don't want to play nations.

If you don't like it, start your own nation. You can't fight a whole nation on your own.
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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by Seth » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:07 am

mistermack wrote:
Seth wrote:Why should anyone else have to pay your expenses? You've never adequately addressed that particular part of the equation.
Because I'm equally happy to pay theirs.
So because you choose to be charitable you assume that you have the authority to make everyone else be charitable as well? That's not charity, that's selfishness and greed.
And because this is what we choose, as a nation.
Ah yes, the classic "democratic" argument for tyranny of the majority. Well, when the majority decides that you're too sick and feeble to be worth the investment of keeping you alive, I don't want to hear any complaints from you.
That's what being a nation is all about. You get together and decide things as a group. And then enforce them on those who don't want to play nations.
And you think that a tyrannous majority is inherently more moral or ethical than anything else why, exactly? Be careful what you advocate for, lest you get the shit end of the stick from the majority one of these days.
If you don't like it, start your own nation. You can't fight a whole nation on your own.
Every journey begins with a single step and every revolution begins with a single objector to the status quo.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by mistermack » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:54 am

Your ideal is doomed to failure.

Get rid of government, leave it all to the individuals, and what happens?
Some individuals get pissed off within days. The assholes are making life hell. And they know that by working together, they can defend themselves from the assholes, and improve virtually everything.

So they get together. Immediately they are stronger and more effective than the loners.
Other groups form. They fight wars. Eventually, one lot wins out.
And you're back to what we have now.

It's absolutely inevitable.

And it ought to be obvious. It's the history of your country, for fuck's sake !
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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by Seth » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:07 pm

mistermack wrote:Your ideal is doomed to failure.
No, quite obviously Marxism, your ideal, is, as Greece is proving this very minute.
Get rid of government, leave it all to the individuals, and what happens?
Nobody suggested getting rid of government.
Some individuals get pissed off within days. The assholes are making life hell. And they know that by working together, they can defend themselves from the assholes, and improve virtually everything.

So they get together. Immediately they are stronger and more effective than the loners.
Other groups form. They fight wars. Eventually, one lot wins out.
And you're back to what we have now.
What you mean "we" paleface?
It's absolutely inevitable.

And it ought to be obvious. It's the history of your country, for fuck's sake !
It's only inevitable because there are lazy, greedy people who want others to support them and manage to create governments with the power to force others to do so. The trick is not to allow government to have or gain that sort of power to begin with, which is what our Constitution was all about. Admittedly it's been grossly distorted of late, but it worked quite well for more than 150 years, which is a pretty long run for such a system, and it's worked fairly well up until quite recently. To restore it to effectiveness is a relatively minor matter if the populace decides to do so, which it may when it gets fed up with paying to support all the layabouts and doleists.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

Post by mistermack » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:12 am

Seth wrote:
It's absolutely inevitable.

And it ought to be obvious. It's the history of your country, for fuck's sake !
It's only inevitable because there are lazy, greedy people who want others to support them and manage to create governments with the power to force others to do so. The trick is not to allow government to have or gain that sort of power to begin with, which is what our Constitution was all about. Admittedly it's been grossly distorted of late, but it worked quite well for more than 150 years, which is a pretty long run for such a system, and it's worked fairly well up until quite recently. To restore it to effectiveness is a relatively minor matter if the populace decides to do so, which it may when it gets fed up with paying to support all the layabouts and doleists.
What, you mean, if they all work together, to get what they want? :funny: :funny:
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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