Nothing Happening

[pErvinalia]

The fact it was changed is because it is against the constitution, luckily (and still might be). But surely you realise that they actually want that sole power to rest with the minister? That is the antithesis of liberal democracy, regardless of whether someone wants to slit someone's throat or not. And you are just engaging in the same silly rhetoric Abbott and co have been. Just because people don't want a minister to have sole power to strip citizenship, doesn't mean they want a certain type of person just wandering around the streets.

[JimC]

The fact it was changed is because it is against the constitution, luckily (and still might be). But surely you realise that they actually want that sole power to rest with the minister? That is the antithesis of liberal democracy, regardless of whether someone wants to slit someone's throat or not. And you are just engaging in the same silly rhetoric Abbott and co have been. Just because people don't want a minister to have sole power to strip citizenship, doesn't mean they want a certain type of person just wandering around the streets.

I'm quite aware of the political dimensions, thank you, and the fact that the preferences of liberal ministers would be to be un-encumbered by court oversight.

However, the fact is that they cannot, at the moment, achieve what they may want, due to the rule of law and a free press. That is why, however much their politics need to be criticised, it remains a political absurdity to label this "the rise of fascism in Australia"

Get a grip, and stop being a political drama queen.

[mistermack]

it remains a political absurdity to label this "the rise of fascism in Australia"

Today, Mount Buggery, tomorrow................WAGA WAGA !!!

[pErvinalia]

The fact it was changed is because it is against the constitution, luckily (and still might be). But surely you realise that they actually want that sole power to rest with the minister? That is the antithesis of liberal democracy, regardless of whether someone wants to slit someone's throat or not. And you are just engaging in the same silly rhetoric Abbott and co have been. Just because people don't want a minister to have sole power to strip citizenship, doesn't mean they want a certain type of person just wandering around the streets.

I'm quite aware of the political dimensions, thank you, and the fact that the preferences of liberal ministers would be to be un-encumbered by court oversight.

However, the fact is that they cannot, at the moment, achieve what they may want, due to the rule of law and a free press. That is why, however much their politics need to be criticised, it remains a political absurdity to label this "the rise of fascism in Australia"

Get a grip, and stop being a political drama queen.

You really haven't addressed much of what I've said. I can't seriously believe you still think we are an example of a liberal democracy with all those problems I've listed (and more I haven't listed). Seriously, go and read the comments and watch the news about this Q&A thing. I shit you not, it appears as if the vast majority of people support abandonment of the rule of law. And that should be no surprise as the majority of people support the inhumane treatment of asylum seekers in offshore prisons, and the secrecy surrounding the whole thing. Most people support an increase in surveillance, because they are fearful that the trrrrrrrsts are coming to get them. Yes, thankfully we have the constitution to protect us from some of these excesses, but it's not protecting us from most of the ones I've listed in this thread. For better or worse, we don't actually have a strong clear constitution like the US does. Hence why this shit can be done, and then it takes years of work to undo in the courts, without any clear knowledge before hand whether the challenge will be successful.

[pErvinalia]

Another obvious move towards ceding sovereignty from the people to the elite (i.e. fascist like) is the TPP and the investor state settlement thingo. It allows foreign corporations to sue the national governments if they enact policies that harm their businesses. How is that democracy??

[mistermack]

Another obvious move towards ceding sovereignty from the people to the elite (i.e. fascist like) is the TPP and the investor state settlement thingo. It allows foreign corporations to sue the national governments if they enact policies that harm their businesses. How is that democracy??

Yeh, that's EXACTLY how Hitler got started.

[pErvinalia]

Another one: Australians vote repeatedly to ensure that we have certain minimum workplace health and safety standards and minimum industrial rights (like minimum pay, leave, etc). Yet the government has just signed the ChFTA which allows Chinese companies completing projects in Australia to import workers and separately negotiate all those standards just listed with the immigration department outside of our industrial relations laws. Not only is this excising a little piece of Australia, it's also bypassing the usual controls on the importation of foreign workers when there is a local source of labour. It's actually a brazen extension of the ethos of globalisation, which is essentially a big side-step around pesky environmental, health, safety, wages and working conditions. It's globalisation come full circle and come back home. Anyway, that's a neoliberal rant, but it's still a great example of how governments and corporations are colluding to the exclusion (and detriment) of the people and democracy.

[pErvinalia]

Another obvious move towards ceding sovereignty from the people to the elite (i.e. fascist like) is the TPP and the investor state settlement thingo. It allows foreign corporations to sue the national governments if they enact policies that harm their businesses. How is that democracy??

Yeh, that's EXACTLY how Hitler got started.

Yes, because unless something is Hitler and Nazi Germany it can't be on a slow path to fascism. Genius.

[mistermack]

Yes, because unless something is Hitler and Nazi Germany it can't be on a slow path to fascism. Genius.

Have you never heard that expression, ''all roads lead to Rome'' ?

In the same way, all paths lead to fascism.

[pErvinalia]

All intelligence certainly leads the opposite direction to your brain...

[pErvinalia]

safe_imageKOILUXNG.jpg (26.13 KiB) Viewed 2198 times

The flags continue outside of the frame.

[JimC]

Sure, Abbott is a jingoistic arsehole who relies on populist nationalism. However, he is on the nose with the majority, and stands a good chance of being the leader on a one term government, as long as Shorten doesn't shoot himself in the foot.

Then we can go back to being ruled by Marxists...

[pErvinalia]

Your only answer to these issues I've raised appears to be "it's a problem with the current Lib government". But this Lib government is just an extension to the right of the previous Lib government of Howard. And the next Coalition government will be a further extension of this one. Likewise, Labor, being the utterly ineffective opposition it is (a lot of that is due to a failed media culture), will continue to move to the right as a pale imitation of the conservatives for fear of getting wedged on national security issues. Jim, this isn't a problem of one particular bunch of politicians. It's a problem of elitism, and failure to respect the liberal democratic concepts of open and accountable government and the rule of law.

[pErvinalia]

Hmmm..

Now, before you get your panties in a twist in defending the bollocks of the "serious people" (i.e. the political and media elite), this picture is posted mainly for the list of things, and to encourage you to think about how much (or not) each criteria applies to Australia. You couldn't put a full tick in most of them, but you could definitely put a half or quarter tick in a lot of them.

[pErvinalia]

Straya! "Who's side are you on?"!