People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
- Blind groper
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People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
We have seen people on this forum treat would-be suicides as losers who should be written off. "Let them kill themselves - no loss!"
I disagree.
Here is a list of well known people. Guess what they have in common.
Mark Twain.
Brigitte Bardot.
Elizabeth Taylor
Stephen Fry.
Drew Barrymore.
Halle Berry.
Tina Turner.
Owen Wilson.
Billy Joel.
I disagree.
Here is a list of well known people. Guess what they have in common.
Mark Twain.
Brigitte Bardot.
Elizabeth Taylor
Stephen Fry.
Drew Barrymore.
Halle Berry.
Tina Turner.
Owen Wilson.
Billy Joel.
Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
Wouldn't really miss a one of them, and somebody else would come along and do something cool just the same. No man or woman is indispensable and the argument that every human life is "precious" is not only not a historical fact, it's too often the justification for infringing on the liberty of others.Blind groper wrote:We have seen people on this forum treat would-be suicides as losers who should be written off. "Let them kill themselves - no loss!"
I disagree.
Here is a list of well known people. Guess what they have in common.
Mark Twain.
Brigitte Bardot.
Elizabeth Taylor
Stephen Fry.
Drew Barrymore.
Halle Berry.
Tina Turner.
Owen Wilson.
Billy Joel.
That being said, it's not about calling suicidal people write-offs, it's about respecting their rights as individuals to determine the time, place and manner of their death. The right to life, and the right to liberty necessarily encompass the right to choose to die. If society takes away that right, then it is enslaving the individual in the worst sort of way by forcing that individual to continue to tolerate the intolerable.
And THAT being said, you misconstrue my arguments because you almost always use the suicide excuse as a prelude to a demand to ban guns, which is a binary choice that doesn't represent reality. And since those discussions are mostly about banning guns, with suicide as nothing more than a side issue, I refuse to accede to your demands that my right to keep and bear arms be infringed for the sake of a very small number of people who may wish to use a gun to commit suicide. Their mental and emotional problems, no matter how severe, lamentable or reversible, do not rise to the level of a compelling government interest that the government can address by banning guns for everyone else. It's a stupid argument and always has been.
If you want to discuss suicide prevention in some other context, that's fine, but so long as you use it only as a springboard for your anti-gun sentiments, I'm not going to bother to do anything except tell you how stupid you are being.
You want to keep guns away from suicidal people I have no objection at all, so long as you only involve suicidal people in your efforts. But the moment that you propose to infringe on the rights of EVERYONE ELSE in order to serve the immediate needs of some suicidal person, you lose the argument. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but a theoretical suicidal person's theoretical personal safety is not my problem and cannot be used as an excuse to violate my rights. Ever. If that means that some suicidal people succeed, oh well, that's what they wanted anyway so who cares?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- Hermit
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
None of them committed suicide.Blind groper wrote:We have seen people on this forum treat would-be suicides as losers who should be written off. "Let them kill themselves - no loss!"
I disagree.
Here is a list of well known people. Guess what they have in common.
Mark Twain.
Brigitte Bardot.
Elizabeth Taylor
Stephen Fry.
Drew Barrymore.
Halle Berry.
Tina Turner.
Owen Wilson.
Billy Joel.
The most common criticism I have encountered concerning people who have committed suicide is that they are selfish and inconsiderate.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
- Blind groper
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
Hermit
Your guess is not quite right. Keep trying.
Your guess is not quite right. Keep trying.
- Hermit
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
I mentioned something I think those people have in common. Where did I go wrong?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
- JimC
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
I presume that BG means that they all attempted suicide at some time, or at least seriously thought about it...
As for Seth's point, I certainly think that terminally ill people should have the right to die with dignity at a time of heir own choice.
As for Seth's point, I certainly think that terminally ill people should have the right to die with dignity at a time of heir own choice.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
- Hermit
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
No kidding? Now, why didn't I think of that?JimC wrote:I presume that BG means that they all attempted suicide at some time, or at least seriously thought about it...

A list of public figures who did commit suicide. There appears to be quite a varied number of reasons for them. Erwin Rommel was blackmailed into it. The SS told him that his family will not be harmed if he did himself in. Cleopatra would rather not be humiliated by being paraded in a triumphal parade in Rome as one of many trophies. Hermann Göring preferred to kill himself rather than be hanged by the allies a few days later. Arthur Koestler decided he did not want to face ravages of the unavoidable progress of Parkinsons disease and leukaemia. His partner, Cynthia joined him because she could not face life without him. Ernest Hemingway had become paranoid and depressed. The reason for his suicide may have been genetic. His brother, his sister and his granddaughter also took their own lives. Sylvia Plath was finally overcome by bouts of severe depression.
Overall, depression seems to be the dominant factor for committing suicide. How much of it is genetic and how much due to social factors I do not wish to discuss. The second most frequent reason for committing suicide is an unwillingness to go through irreversible mental degradation or suffer through the pain of terminal diseases. Whatever, I will not condemn anyone who has done him/herself in as cowardly, weak or anything else.
Declaration of interest: My mother committed suicide when I was a teenager. She was what was then called a manic depressive. At least one of my siblings is in denial about the cause of death. She adamantly insists that mum died from respiratory failure.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
I agree, but then again those who say that are selfish and inconsiderate as well. To assume that someone is obliged to continue a life of torment just so someone else won't feel betrayed or abandoned is the height of narcissistic selfishness. If you truly love someone who is suffering to the point that they wish to die, the last thing you would want is to prolong that agony.Hermit wrote:None of them committed suicide.Blind groper wrote:We have seen people on this forum treat would-be suicides as losers who should be written off. "Let them kill themselves - no loss!"
I disagree.
Here is a list of well known people. Guess what they have in common.
Mark Twain.
Brigitte Bardot.
Elizabeth Taylor
Stephen Fry.
Drew Barrymore.
Halle Berry.
Tina Turner.
Owen Wilson.
Billy Joel.
The most common criticism I have encountered concerning people who have committed suicide is that they are selfish and inconsiderate.
Which is not to say that it would be amiss to try to persuade the person that the situation is not hopeless and can change for the better (if that happens to be true) and try to get them to stick it out and get some help.
But in the end, guilt-tripping a suicidal person is as selfish as it can possibly get.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
Why only terminally ill people? They are, after all, terminally ill and will eventually die anyway. But the suicidal person living in mental agony every day can easily continue in that hellish torment for years or decades or an entire lifetime. Why should they not have the right to choose to end that torture as well? By what right does anyone presume to interfere with the exercise of that right in the first place. Isn't forcibly keeping a suicidal person alive a form of involuntary servitude?JimC wrote:I presume that BG means that they all attempted suicide at some time, or at least seriously thought about it...
As for Seth's point, I certainly think that terminally ill people should have the right to die with dignity at a time of heir own choice.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- cronus
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
Mostly a cry for help. Knew a friend who hung himself. Put it down to time and chance. Can happen to anyone. Wrong situation, harsh light of a black day. Grief, sorrow and what not. Another day it could have been Seth? Maybe not, but could happen to anyone.
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
It's difficult to think of sticking a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger, jumping out of a fifth floor window, throwing yourself under a train, hanging yourself, swallowing 125 sleeping tablets in half an hour and suchlike as a cry for help. Those are the sort of things most people who succeed in killing themselves do. The only help they are after is a way to exit life and they help themselves to it just fine.Scumple wrote:Mostly a cry for help.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
- pErvinalia
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
I dunno why BG is always so keen to stick his nose into the private affairs of individuals. If someone wants to commit suicide, then it's none of your business (unless they are someone under your legal care).
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
Right up to the moment people are hoping for a intervention. Especially with hanging. Since folks who hang themselves alone always struggle to escape - frantic like, on autopsy. 

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- JimC
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
I'm in two minds on this. I do take your point about exercising rights, and for someone "living in mental agony every day", it may well be the best option. However, young adolescents can have sudden mood swings, some of them very dark, but typically temporary. Suicide in that situation can only be regarded as a terrible waste...Seth wrote:Why only terminally ill people? They are, after all, terminally ill and will eventually die anyway. But the suicidal person living in mental agony every day can easily continue in that hellish torment for years or decades or an entire lifetime. Why should they not have the right to choose to end that torture as well? By what right does anyone presume to interfere with the exercise of that right in the first place. Isn't forcibly keeping a suicidal person alive a form of involuntary servitude?JimC wrote:I presume that BG means that they all attempted suicide at some time, or at least seriously thought about it...
As for Seth's point, I certainly think that terminally ill people should have the right to die with dignity at a time of heir own choice.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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- mistermack
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Re: People who attempt suicide are not write offs.
Too right. When they interview people who tried but didn't succeed, in later years, it's obvious that the vast majority are eternally grateful to the people who stopped them.JimC wrote:. However, young adolescents can have sudden mood swings, some of them very dark, but typically temporary. Suicide in that situation can only be regarded as a terrible waste...
As far as I'm concerned, that fact overrides any rights that the wannabee stiff might have.
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