http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-volta ... ct_currentA long distance point to point HVDC transmission scheme generally has lower overall investment cost and lower losses than an equivalent AC transmission scheme. HVDC conversion equipment at the terminal stations is costly, but the total DC transmission line costs over long distances are lower than AC line of the same distance. HVDC requires less conductor per unit distance than an AC line, as there is no need to support three phases and there is no skin effect.
Depending on voltage level and construction details, HVDC transmission losses are quoted as about 3.5% per 1,000 km, which is less than typical AC transmission losses.[17] It is because HVDC typically comprises active power flow only and thus causes lower losses than HVAC lines, which comprise active and reactive power flow.
Chernobyl deaths
- pErvinalia
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
OK, but is this option being actually done somewhere in the real world, or is it still a theoretical possibility that no actual country has installed? Remember, it has to be converted from AC at the power station, and back to AC at a city substation, which sounds like it will involve expensive equipment, as well as potential losses of energy during the conversions...
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
It's more a case of inertia, I imagine. AC was the initial technology chosen for this, and as such it's been stuck with because of that infrastructural inertia. But if you are building new long distance power networks, then it could make sense to swap over.
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
Could be, I guess. Would need a thorough cost-benefit analysis...
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
I have to say "Well done, Jim."
So many of your countrymen are utterly and irrationally afraid of nuclear power. Yet your current system burns coal, which does vastly more damage than nuclear. Australia has the highest carbon emissions per person from power generation of any country. Jim's suggestion is very sane and very good.
I do not think transmission losses would be such a terrible problem. Electricity can be sent across substantial distances and is already being so sent today. I remember a scheme in which power from Iceland was suggested to be sent via an underwater cable to Britain. If that idea was considered practical, so is Jim's.
So many of your countrymen are utterly and irrationally afraid of nuclear power. Yet your current system burns coal, which does vastly more damage than nuclear. Australia has the highest carbon emissions per person from power generation of any country. Jim's suggestion is very sane and very good.
I do not think transmission losses would be such a terrible problem. Electricity can be sent across substantial distances and is already being so sent today. I remember a scheme in which power from Iceland was suggested to be sent via an underwater cable to Britain. If that idea was considered practical, so is Jim's.
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
Nothing will be practical unless the economics stack up. If we priced carbon properly, and got over our blanket refusal to countenance nuclear, then it might become practical. But it simply isn't at the moment. The distances involved from say Olympic Dam close enough to the centre of Australia to the big cities (particularly Sydney and Melbourne) is huge. So many foreigners just don't understand the vast distances involved in Australia, and how utterly empty of infrastructure the majority of it is.
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
One word: Superconductors
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
Long term, after a lot of technological development, maybe...Seth wrote:One word: Superconductors
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
Australia has plenty of coal.
Crazy not to use it, and use expensive nuclear instead.
The Chinese are not so daft. When you buy your Chinese-made goods, lots of them are cheap, thanks to Ozzie coal.
So if you don't use it, someone else will. You're not saving anything.
Crazy not to use it, and use expensive nuclear instead.
The Chinese are not so daft. When you buy your Chinese-made goods, lots of them are cheap, thanks to Ozzie coal.
So if you don't use it, someone else will. You're not saving anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_AustraliaWikipedia wrote: Coal in Australia is mined primarily in Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria. It is used to generate electricity and 54% of the coal mined in Australia is exported, mostly to eastern Asia. In 2013, 459 million tonnes of coal were mined, and 336 million tonnes were exported. Coal provides about 69% of Australia's electricity production.[1]
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
Well, we'd be helping save civilisation from global warming. But you reckon that's a conspiracy theory. 

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Re: Chernobyl deaths
You need to wear lead underwear in that part of Ukraine. If not, Chernobyl fallout. 

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Re: Chernobyl deaths
It's not relevant, because if you don't use it in Oz, you sell it to China.rEvolutionist wrote:Well, we'd be helping save civilisation from global warming. But you reckon that's a conspiracy theory.
It still gets burn't.
You might as well burn it onsite, and save some CO2 carrying it to China.
Better for the planet.

While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
Re: Chernobyl deaths
Exactly. The US has already reduced its carbon emissions an enormous amount, whereas China has increased its by an enormous amount. Obama is creating economic murder with his regulatory structures because nothing we can possibly do, including reducing our carbon output to zero overnight, will stop China and other nations from going right ahead and increasing theirs...and just like the tar sands oil from Canada, if it doesn't get piped to US refineries using the Keystone XL pipeline, It'll get piped to Asia and elsewhere by Canada by building a pipeline to Vancouver, BC.mistermack wrote:It's not relevant, because if you don't use it in Oz, you sell it to China.rEvolutionist wrote:Well, we'd be helping save civilisation from global warming. But you reckon that's a conspiracy theory.
It still gets burn't.
You might as well burn it onsite, and save some CO2 carrying it to China.
Better for the planet.
And if US coal companies can't ship their coal, which is some of the "cleanest" coal on the planet, to US power plants, they will simply ship it to China or somewhere else that needs coal and doesn't give a shit about carbon emissions, like just about every 2nd and 3rd world country on earth.
Since it's going to get burned one way or another, we should be burning it here at home so as to keep our energy prices low and our economy expanding.
Screw all the rest of y'all.
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© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- Blind groper
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
Again, on transmission.
Here in little ol' NZ, our power is mainly hydroelectric, and the biggest dams are well south in the South Island. We send power north to the city of Auckland, over a 1,000 kms away, 24/7. I doubt that is a record!
There is no city on the Australian coast that is more than 1,000 kms from underpopulated wasteland. So Jim's scheme is totally practical.
Here in little ol' NZ, our power is mainly hydroelectric, and the biggest dams are well south in the South Island. We send power north to the city of Auckland, over a 1,000 kms away, 24/7. I doubt that is a record!
There is no city on the Australian coast that is more than 1,000 kms from underpopulated wasteland. So Jim's scheme is totally practical.
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Re: Chernobyl deaths
Yeh, but Hydro is cheap, pretty much the cheapest electricity you can get. And the South Island can't use it all.Blind groper wrote:Again, on transmission.
Here in little ol' NZ, our power is mainly hydroelectric, and the biggest dams are well south in the South Island. We send power north to the city of Auckland, over a 1,000 kms away, 24/7. I doubt that is a record!
There is no city on the Australian coast that is more than 1,000 kms from underpopulated wasteland. So Jim's scheme is totally practical.
So even with transmission losses, it's still economic.
And it's stretching it to say that it's transmitted all the way to Aukland.
It might be technically connected to Aukland via the grid, but it wouldn't actually be travelling that far. There is plenty of generating capacity in the North Island including geothermal, wind and gas. Anything coming from the South would normally get mopped up by Wellington.
Nuclear is expensive to start with, compared to Hydro or Geothermal. And more so with transmission costs on top.
It would need to be heavily subsidised In Australia to be competitive.
Or be given a monopoly, with the consumer being forced to pay much higher prices.
Edit:
I just had a look, and the transmission from the South Island to the North involves DC transmission of some sort, with conversion back to AC.
Which is relevant to earlier posts.
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