'Splain this one Atheists...

[Svartalf]

Yeah, it'd have to be pretty robust to get print in what is normally a yellow paper

[Animavore]

The only problem I have with this is that this so-called chiropractor will get full of himself, believe his own guff, and cause damage to someone else down the line.

[Tero]

Do I need to read all this? It was just Daily Mail.

[pErvinalia]

It's evidence of God, Tero. Convert now, or burn in eternal flames!!11!!!

[Animavore]

This answers all your concerns in song. Around 5:20.





I think that's a [/thread]

[laklak]

I'm gay for Tim.

[Svartalf]

He looks sad, not the best way to make one gay.

[Seth]

If God don't have to do what's right then there is no right, only whim.
If God has to do what's right, then the right is more powerful than the God.

Um. Who told you that God has to do "what's right?" Christians? Muslims? Buddhists? Pagans? Norsemen? You guys seem fine with saying what a bastard God is, but you deny God exists. Well, what does God's character have to do with whether or not God exists?

Besides, you're evading the OP.

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

If you have critically robust scientific or medical evidence showing what caused this unusual recovery, then present it. If you don't...well...why should anyone believe you and not them?

It is a long way from "no-one in this particular case has yet analysed the nature of the recovery" to " we don't know what caused it, therefore the prayer must have caused the recovery"

Do you think that harried medical staff routinely perform an intricate investigation of every recovery from coma to pin down the precise reasons (part of which will involve random events in any case)? No, they breath a sigh of relief, and move on...

How...scientific...of them?

Plenty of similar recoveries occur without a single prayer being uttered, and plenty of unfortunates never recover despite plenty of praying.

How do you know this? Perhaps someone, somewhere prays for each and every one of those patients and that is why such "miraculous" and medically-unexplained recoveries ensue. And perhaps the unfortunates who never recover never recover for some higher purpose.

You're stating a fallacy of course. Just because person A did not recover does not mean that person B's recovery cannot be attributed to divine intervention.

I repeat, one anecdote of this nature proves or disproves nothing.

It proves that a girl who was "scientifically" brain-dead and about to be harvested for her organs quite suddenly and unexpectedly recovered and medicine has no explanation for how that came to pass. So, logically and rationally one possible hypothesis is that her recovery was the result of intervention by a force or intelligence beyond medicine's knowledge or understanding.

[Seth]

To be fair, the Mikkelsens had four years to address this particular case. Then again, there are so many similar stories which turn out to be bullshit that they would either get snowed in, or they might simply have decided that this one is so much more of the same that it is pointless to run it through the debunking process too.

Personally, I don't care either way. Like Strontium Dog, I'll be pricking up my ears when prayer is convincingly shown to be responsible for replacing an amputated leg.

Skepticism is, in this case as in most cases, merely evasion caused by intense discomfort with the prospect that you've been wrong the whole time and you don't want to face that possibility. In this case, girl was clinically dead, now she's not. That recovery raises some serious and interesting issues about man's understanding of medical science, the universe and everything. True rationalists who are intellectually superior are not afraid to examine and discuss such mysteries openly and without fear. Those who are uncertain in their (Atheist) faith, like most other religious believers, may choose denial and evasion over critical scrutiny.

[Seth]

I've used prayer for asthma relief, but any process that calms you down is as efficient.

On that note, and completely OT, I have been using Symbicort (and other asthma drugs) for decades now after suffering a couple of attacks when I was a teenager. Recently I decided not to renew the scrip because of the incredible expense (domestically it's over $300 per month, but buying through Canada Drugs it's about $35 a month) I decided to give it up. I've tried before but upon stopping I'd always get much worse and have to restart the meds. This time I decided to very slowly taper off the Symbicort over more than a month.

It worked.

I haven't had any serious wheezing in a few weeks. I occasionally get a little tight from allergens or due to exercise-induced bronchospasm, but I still have Albuterol inhalers left and a puff or two fixes that.

Better yet, I've been suffering with repeated sinus and upper respiratory infections most of my life, particularly a chronic sinus infection that comes back even after a course of antibiotics that kept my nose stuffed up and dribbling most of the time. Now, for the first time in decades I can breathe freely through my nose and sleep without mouth-breathing, and my chronic cough due to post-nasal drip has largely cleared up. I knew that respiratory infections were one of the side effects of the med, which is an immunosuppressant, but I had no idea exactly how bad the problem really was. It appears that the Symbicort was actually causing and aggravating my chest and sinus problems while "solving" a problem it appears I outgrew decades ago. I'm much healthier now and feel much better being off the Symbicort. It may also have some effect on my blood sugars, since that's another side effect.

I still keep an Albuterol inhaler handy, but haven't used it in a couple of weeks now despite some heavy labor packing up the house.

[Seth]

He looks sad, not the best way to make one gay.

Sad? He looks positively haunted. Anybody with that much hate and anger inside need some serious help.

[pErvinalia]

He's one of the greatest comedians of his type and his time. To accuse him of anger is strange.

[Seth]

He's one of the greatest comedians of his type and his time. To accuse him of anger is strange.

Really? I've never heard of him and don't find him even slightly amusing. And I don't know even one comic that isn't angry at something. That's why they make jokes.

[pErvinalia]

The anger is exaggerated for comedic effect. Look him up on youtube. He's Australian. That's why you haven't heard of him. i.e. he's not a Merkin.