Audi makes carbon neutral synthetic diesel from air & water

[Seth]

Seth, that's certainly dreadful fuel economy in your diesel vehicle. My 2 litre Forester diesel 4WD averages 6.7 litres per 100 km, which equates to 35 mpg, even better on long trips to the outback.

How much does your Forester weigh empty. My truck weighs nearly 7000 pounds empty. Slap 20 thousand pounds of trailer and cargo on your Forester and let me know how you mileage changes.

I think the main reason why the Audi process might be important in the long run, when an oil shortage eventually occurs, is that it will support what will be a large number of "legacy" diesel powered transport until other technologies mature.

I completely agree. Nothing wrong with having a backup plan, but I'd like to know the true costs before anybody starts suggesting it's a replacement for fossil diesel.

[mistermack]

Audi are pushing this as some kind of new invention, but it's not.
Every element of it is a well-known chemical process. It's just that few people have bothered with it before because of the economics.
It's only now, with the massive subsidies available for so-called low carbon fuels, that they think they can make a buck out of it. And if they can get the fuel zero rated for tax, they possibly can.

It's one more way that the public will be asked to pay through the nose for the global warming scam.

Here is a British Company who have been working on the same idea, without the Audi fanfare.
http://www.airfuelsynthesis.com/home.html
And the BBC said this about them in 2012 :

First things first - squashing CO2 back into a molecule packed with energy is not a new idea.
For example, work done at Princeton University in the US and published in 1994 to make the fuel additive methanol from CO2 has more recently been refined and spun into a company called Liquid Light that is aiming to do the same thing.
In Iceland, Carbon Recycling International opened a plant at the end of 2011 drawing waste CO2 from a power station, with capacity to produce five million litres of methanol per year.
Air Fuel Synthesis build on these methods by turning the methanol into something more like petrol, using processes well entrenched already in the petroleum industry.

Like I said, there's nothing new in it, it's grants and subsidies that make it viable. And the magic words are ''carbon neutral''.

That's why they have to use the far more expensive electricity from renewables.
Without that, there is no subsidy.

Of course, where renewables are incredibly cheap, you might make the numbers add up.

[Tero]

It could transport power from Iceland more eaily than shipping hydrogen. That's about it.

[mistermack]

It could transport power from Iceland more eaily than shipping hydrogen. That's about it.

Methanol is Wood Alcohol. It has a lot of uses.
Like the English company are doing, converting it into a petrol substitute, or combining it with vegetable oils to produce bio-diesel.

You can run cars on methanol, but it's a bit toxic, and is better when blended with petrol and ethanol. But if it was all we had, we'd soon find the best way to use it.

It's good to know that if they succeed with nuclear fusion power generation, they will be able to make diesel, petrol and plastics cheaply out of air and water. So all cars will probably be hybrids of electric and internal combustion engines.

[Seth]

Like I said, there's nothing new in it, it's grants and subsidies that make it viable. And the magic words are ''carbon neutral''.

That's why they have to use the far more expensive electricity from renewables.
Without that, there is no subsidy.

Of course, where renewables are incredibly cheap, you might make the numbers add up.

Everything that goes on on this plant is "carbon neutral." All the carbon there is, ever was, or ever will be is already here, in circulation, one way or another.

[piscator]

Seth, that's certainly dreadful fuel economy in your diesel vehicle. My 2 litre Forester diesel 4WD averages 6.7 litres per 100 km, which equates to 35 mpg, even better on long trips to the outback.

I think the main reason why the Audi process might be important in the long run, when an oil shortage eventually occurs, is that it will support what will be a large number of "legacy" diesel powered transport until other technologies mature.

Is Someone talking about his 5mpg F450? The one he burnt up letting his EGT go too high because he didn't know to downshift his non-intercooled truck when pulling a load up a grade? Not representative. Truck's geared to the ground and owner doesn't understand he needed a $1700 splitter for double OD if he wants fuel mileage on the highway with 4.88 or 5.10:1 gear ratio. That same truck would get 20mpg unladen and 10-12mpg pulling a 36' fifth wheel at GCVW with a US Gear tail unit and effective 0.8:1 double OD in the Big Hole. Ford's engineers had unrealistic design constraints they had to compromise to meet 50-state passenger vehicle emissions requirements and the demands of the bean counters to build the heavy duty trucks on the same lines, so they designed a truck that would self-destruct if you drove it on the highway. Normal US highway speeds have the engine tach'ed out close to 3000RPM with those short gears, and the engine was not designed to spend significant periods above 2500RPM, with or without intercooling. Look at the engine's torque and horsepower curves.
Someone should have deleted his cat and mufflers while increasing the diameter of his exhaust pipes, added a splitter, and intercooled his engine. The $2500 would have doubled his fuel mileage and doubled the life of the engine in the $30,000 truck.

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While we're talking about trucks...

Maximum allowed grade on the Eisenhower interstate System is 7%, and must be less than Critical Length of Grade, as trucks can't force downshifts. Their 9/10/13/15/18-speed transmissions are not "Synchronized" like your passenger vehicle. Even if the driver tries to downshift with the clutch engaged, the shifter will just grind if the engine RPM is not within a narrow range, and he'll have to find a higher gear with no engine braking.
If a big truck doesn't select a low enough gear at the top of a big hill, he can't brake down to a reasonable speed when his load starts pushing him down the hill because his air brakes generate too much heat and his wheel rims will heat up and burn the beads off his 125psi tires, which will blow them off the rims in the next curve if it doesn't do it right then.
The solution to this is either crawling down the hill, or a Jake Brake, which opens the exhaust valves during the power stroke of the the 4-stroke evolution. This means the engine uses the truck's inertia, transmitted through the drivetrain, to compress air and make noise instead of the engine using fuel to compress air and make noise and transmit force through the drivetrain in the other direction. A Jake Brake may well have saved all of our skins at some time during our lives, as people don't go around thinking about the amount of inertia a moving 80,000lb object contains, and credit them with the same confident nimbleness they feel while driving their Mini Coopers and clapped-out Jettas.


A 600 Cat in a Kenworth weighing 80,000lbs will pull Rabbit Ears Pass making about 4mpg. It gets about 7 on the flats with the same load. Donner Pass on 80 is higher and longer, and Cabbage Leaf on 90 is about as high and longer than Vail. The Grapevine on I-5 is steeper and longer than the law allows, but there are CHP truck inspection stations on top, and dozens of "Runaway Chutes", made to stop a runaway truck by ripping off its wheels and axles in soft sand, on the downhill sides.

18 new tires for England coming down the Grapevine...

[Seth]

Seth, that's certainly dreadful fuel economy in your diesel vehicle. My 2 litre Forester diesel 4WD averages 6.7 litres per 100 km, which equates to 35 mpg, even better on long trips to the outback.

I think the main reason why the Audi process might be important in the long run, when an oil shortage eventually occurs, is that it will support what will be a large number of "legacy" diesel powered transport until other technologies mature.

Is Someone talking about his 5mpg F450? The one he burnt up letting his EGT go too high because he didn't know to downshift his non-intercooled truck when pulling a load up a grade?

No, that was the Hummer, which ruined the engine because there was no EGT gauge at all, so when hauling up a grade at high altitude (since the truck was tuned for sea level originally) it over-fueled even in first gear and overheated the #8 cylinder, a typical problem with the 6.5 GM diesel because of a faulty cooling jacket that didn't have a crossover pipe at the rear of the head to keep the rear cylinders properly cooled. I was one of hundreds of people who did the same thing. After that I installed EGT and tranny temp gauges instead of the idiot light that prominently announced that you've already blown your engine.

Or perhaps you were referring to my 98 Dodge diesel pickup, which had a serious design flaw which is that the transmission torque converter did not lock up in first or second gear, it only locked up in third gear or higher. Again, there was only an idiot light that came on AFTER you'd fried your transmission trying to pull heavy loads or up hill in first or 2nd gear. Dodge didn't tell anyone that the tranny was not designed to lock up in first or 2nd and many trannys later they switched to a different transmission altogether that DID lock up in low gear. After the first tranny, which was replaced under warranty, I installed EGT and trans temp gauges and it never happened again.

The F-450 has pulled anything I have ever hooked it in a very civilized and professional manner, and it has never once so much as overheated the coolant, much less the tranny fluid on a miles-long 7.5% grade pulling at 34,850 gross combined. I love the Ford's ability to tow anything. It just gets really lousy mileage.

Not representative. Truck's geared to the ground and owner doesn't understand he needed a $1700 splitter for double OD if he wants fuel mileage on the highway with 4.88 or 5.10:1 gear ratio.

Already has a tow mode and overdrive. Yes, an aftermarket overdrive would be nice, but I couldn't put one in while it was under warranty because it voids the warranty, and since it just went out of warranty two years ago (timed out, not mileage) and I didn't use it that much, I didn't bother to install one. I could, and I could install a drive line retarder too, but I've found that the Ford's own automatic Jake brake works very well on downhills and I've never needed a drive line retarder. As for an overdrive, if I drove it all the time that would be on the agenda.

That same truck would get 20mpg unladen and 10-12mpg pulling a 36' fifth wheel at GCVW with a US Gear tail unit and effective 0.8:1 double OD in the Big Hole. Ford's engineers had unrealistic design constraints they had to compromise to meet 50-state passenger vehicle emissions requirements and the demands of the bean counters to build the heavy duty trucks on the same lines, so they designed a truck that would self-destruct if you drove it on the highway. Normal US highway speeds have the engine tach'ed out close to 3000RPM with those short gears, and the engine was not designed to spend significant periods above 2500RPM, with or without intercooling. Look at the engine's torque and horsepower curves.

I must disagree somewhat. My truck runs just over 2200 RPM at 75mph and it is intercooled. I can't remember exactly, but I think it has 4.88:1 gearing. The real bitch is that it's computer-governed so it won't go more than 80 mph under any circumstances. I had to buy a diesel programmer just to turn off the computer governor. It also has some nice features including tunes for economy, towing, high power and racing, which will add more than 150HP. I use the towing program with the governor shut off because that program automatically reduces power if the EGT exceeds programmed limits, which keeps you from burning up your engine inadvertently.

The combination is enough to provide authoritative acceleration for this four-ton vehicle, and makes light work out of any typical hauling and towing. The gearing that doesn't allow much boost to build in the first couple of gears when the truck is empty, but at highway speeds, the engine is right in the meat of its powerband in fifth gear - an absolutely perfect setup for full-time towing. The Tow/Haul mode makes for perfectly-timed up- and down-shifts, and greatly reduces the need to use the service brakes while decelerating. Source

Someone should have deleted his cat and mufflers

First, it's a federal crime to tamper with the emissions system, so I'd never do it, and even if I was tempted to do so, I couldn't do so until it was out of warranty.

while increasing the diameter of his exhaust pipes, added a splitter, and intercooled his engine. The $2500 would have doubled his fuel mileage and doubled the life of the engine in the $30,000 truck.

30K? New? No, more like 64K. Worth between 30K and 38K today.

If I decide to go mobile full time I might look into mods, but outside of the failure of a gasket that pumped all the coolant into the cylinders just outside Fort Knox that took two weeks to fix, and a faulty radiator, and a few other minor gripes, all of which were repaired under warranty, it's been the best, most trouble free truck I've ever owned...except for the mileage.

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While we're talking about trucks...

Maximum allowed grade on the Eisenhower interstate System is 7%, and must be less than Critical Length of Grade, as trucks can't force downshifts.

The approach grades are steep, being 7 percent on the west approach and 6 percent on the east approach. Source: CDOT

My bad, I thought it was 7.5% on the west side.

Their 9/10/13/15/18-speed transmissions are not "Synchronized" like your passenger vehicle. Even if the driver tries to downshift with the clutch engaged, the shifter will just grind if the engine RPM is not within a narrow range, and he'll have to find a higher gear with no engine braking.
If a big truck doesn't select a low enough gear at the top of a big hill, he can't brake down to a reasonable speed when his load starts pushing him down the hill because his air brakes generate too much heat and his wheel rims will heat up and burn the beads off his 125psi tires, which will blow them off the rims in the next curve if it doesn't do it right then.
The solution to this is either crawling down the hill, or a Jake Brake, which opens the exhaust valves during the power stroke of the the 4-stroke evolution. This means the engine uses the truck's inertia, transmitted through the drivetrain, to compress air and make noise instead of the engine using fuel to compress air and make noise and transmit force through the drivetrain in the other direction. A Jake Brake may well have saved all of our skins at some time during our lives, as people don't go around thinking about the amount of inertia a moving 80,000lb object contains, and credit them with the same confident nimbleness they feel while driving their Mini Coopers and clapped-out Jettas.

There are two runaway truck ramps on the west side that get used fairly often. Speed limit for vehicles over 30,000 gvw is 30 mph.

[pErvinalia]

How many fricken cars do you own?? No wonder you are going broke. How can a broke person justify owning 3 expensive vehicles? What do you need both a Hummer AND a F450 for??

[piscator]

How many fricken cars do you own?? No wonder you are going broke. How can a broke person justify owning 3 expensive vehicles? What do you need both a Hummer AND a F450 for??

To haul around his extensive collection of esoteric and uberexpensive precision rifles.

[pErvinalia]

He's going to be the best prepped man to ever live in a box under a bridge.

[piscator]

He's going to be the best prepped man to ever live in a box under a bridge.

2200RPM @ 121kph with 4.88:1 gears? He can live in his 7' tall tires.

[Seth]

How many fricken cars do you own?? No wonder you are going broke. How can a broke person justify owning 3 expensive vehicles? What do you need both a Hummer AND a F450 for??

And a Mercedes Benz GL450.

The Hummer I bought when I was active in search and rescue 20 years ago. I was a communications specialist and I'd pack up and go find a mountain top somewhere and set up radio relay for ground and air teams. Nothing else is as good as a Hummer at that task. It's also a really good off-road rescue vehicle and it'll still run even after an EMP attack.

The pickup I bought because I needed a pickup that could haul gooseneck trailers for ranch work as well as other heavy loads.

The Mercedes I bought because I was tired of driving shit pickup trucks all the time, and now it's my primary source of income and will be paid for via investment income in November.

I keep all three, plus a couple of motorcycles because all of them except the Mercedes are paid for and there's no reason not to and I use all of them now and again, like yesterday. Today I'm taking the pickup to Denver to pick up two gooseneck trailers, one on top of the other, for a friend who bought them but doesn't have a gooseneck-capable truck to haul them with. He's hired me to do so.

Probably going to sell the bikes and maybe the Hummer eventually, but I need the pickup to pull the gooseneck trailer with the CONEX storage container on it that all my belongings are being currently loaded into.

[Seth]

How many fricken cars do you own?? No wonder you are going broke. How can a broke person justify owning 3 expensive vehicles? What do you need both a Hummer AND a F450 for??

To haul around his extensive collection of esoteric and uberexpensive precision rifles.

And all the other stuff that goes along with them, like 12,000 rounds of ammo. Got to get to the bunker somehow.

[Seth]

He's going to be the best prepped man to ever live in a box under a bridge.

Well, I'm modifying the command post trailer now so I can live in it. I just finished the fold-out bed platform and I'm now installing the propane flash heater and will be installing a shower stall. It has everything else I need, including a cooking area (not that I ever cook) and a toilet plus lots of cabinetry and a long work counter. I need the shower worst of all because I must shower before going to work. Other than that, it is my "cardboard box" and I can live quite comfortably in it for extended periods. I've lived in a travel trailer for 3 years and I'm fine with it. Sleeping space, toilet, shower and TV and I'm fine.

I'll post pictures of the conversion sometime.

I've also made more than $5000 in the last two months alone selling off some of my "stuff," and I've got another $27,000 or so in the pipeline, $1400 of which I pick up in cash today.

The guns and ammo are perfect investments for an uncertain future. Buy low, sell high.

[pErvinalia]

I keep all three, plus a couple of motorcycles because all of them except the Mercedes are paid for and there's no reason not to

Except that you are broke. And you've got to pay rego and insurance on them. I can't imagine rego and insurance being cheap on those big vehicles.