Audi makes carbon neutral synthetic diesel from air & water

[pErvinalia]

Great advance! And the head Wanka is using it too!

German car manufacturer Audi has reportedly invented a carbon-neutral diesel fuel, made solely from water, carbon dioxide and renewable energy sources. And the crystal clear 'e-diesel' is already being used to power the Audi A8 owned by the country’s Federal Minister of Education and Research, Johanna Wanka.

Their base product, which they’re calling 'blue crude' is created using a three-step process. The first step involves harvesting renewable energy from sources such as wind, solar and hydropower. They then use this energy to split water into oxygen and pure hydrogen, using a process known as reversible electrolysis.

This hydrogen is then mixed with carbon monoxide (CO), which is created from carbon dioxide (CO2) that’s been harvested from the atmosphere. The two react at high temperatures and under pressure, resulting in the production of the long-chain hydrocarbon compounds that make up the blue crude.

Once it's been refined, the resulting e-diesel can be mixed in with our current diesel fuel, or used on its own to power cars in a more sustainable way.

Sunfire analyses have shown that the synthetic fuel is not only more environmentally friendly, but also has superior combustion when compared to fossil fuels. The overall energy efficiency of the e-diesel is 70 percent, they report.

"The engine runs quieter and fewer pollutants are being created," said Sunfire Chief Technology Officer Christian von Olshausen in a press release.

http://www.sciencealert.com/audi-have-s ... -and-water

[Seth]

Great advance! And the head Wanka is using it too!

German car manufacturer Audi has reportedly invented a carbon-neutral diesel fuel, made solely from water, carbon dioxide and renewable energy sources. And the crystal clear 'e-diesel' is already being used to power the Audi A8 owned by the country’s Federal Minister of Education and Research, Johanna Wanka.

Their base product, which they’re calling 'blue crude' is created using a three-step process. The first step involves harvesting renewable energy from sources such as wind, solar and hydropower. They then use this energy to split water into oxygen and pure hydrogen, using a process known as reversible electrolysis.

This hydrogen is then mixed with carbon monoxide (CO), which is created from carbon dioxide (CO2) that’s been harvested from the atmosphere. The two react at high temperatures and under pressure, resulting in the production of the long-chain hydrocarbon compounds that make up the blue crude.

Once it's been refined, the resulting e-diesel can be mixed in with our current diesel fuel, or used on its own to power cars in a more sustainable way.

Sunfire analyses have shown that the synthetic fuel is not only more environmentally friendly, but also has superior combustion when compared to fossil fuels. The overall energy efficiency of the e-diesel is 70 percent, they report.

"The engine runs quieter and fewer pollutants are being created," said Sunfire Chief Technology Officer Christian von Olshausen in a press release.

http://www.sciencealert.com/audi-have-s ... -and-water

Sounds great, but I wonder what the energy and CO2 budget is for the total system including the processing facilities? How much more does it cost than regular diesel fuel?

[pErvinalia]

Read the article. It's expected to be cheaper than regular diesel.

[piscator]

Holy shit. If it's everything they say, this is important.

[JimC]

Read the article. It's expected to be cheaper than regular diesel.

Eventually it could be, but it all depends on the total energy budget, and the cost of the renewable energy. Seth made a reasonable point, in the sense that the devil is in the details. However, a well designed operation could be an important part of keeping us supplied with those lovely liquid hydrocarbon fuels when Scumple's oil crisis hits for real...

[mistermack]

This is nothing new. They have been making fuel out of the air for ages, in various forms.

The point is that the electrical energy you use can be used far more efficiently in an electric vehicle.
And by the time this became available to the public, electric vehicles would be even more effective.

You could also use the Hydrogen in a fuel-cell car, and not bother with making the diesel.

It's a long winded wasteful way of using electrical energy. If the electrical energy was dirt cheap, that wouldn't matter. But as it's coming from the most expensive source, that diesel will cost a fortune to make.

You can bet your life that they are not taking tax into account, when they compare the price to the current diesel price. Most of the price of road fuel is tax. If this stuff had the same tax added on top, it would be about double the current price of diesel.

Edit :

I just had a google look, and the price for the actual diesel in a litre costing one pound thirty eight is fifty one pence.
So the raw cost of this stuff is more than double.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Diesel engines are far easier and cheaper to make than hydrogen fuel cells or electric vehicles (at the moment - that could change). I think that is why this process could prove economical compared to the other two.

[pErvinalia]

This is nothing new. They have been making fuel out of the air for ages, in various forms.

The point is that the electrical energy you use can be used far more efficiently in an electric vehicle.
And by the time this became available to the public, electric vehicles would be even more effective.

You could also use the Hydrogen in a fuel-cell car, and not bother with making the diesel.

It's a long winded wasteful way of using electrical energy. If the electrical energy was dirt cheap, that wouldn't matter. But as it's coming from the most expensive source, that diesel will cost a fortune to make.

Can none of you cunts read? It's cheaper than current diesel.

The other point is, that all existing diesel cars can run on it. All existing cars can't run on electric power or hydrogen.

It will also allow it to be a fuel source to supplement baseline power supplies when renewables are falling short.

You can bet your life that they are not taking tax into account, when they compare the price to the current diesel price. Most of the price of road fuel is tax. If this stuff had the same tax added on top, it would be about double the current price of diesel.

Blind assertion. As usual.

[mistermack]

You can bet your life that they are not taking tax into account, when they compare the price to the current diesel price. Most of the price of road fuel is tax. If this stuff had the same tax added on top, it would be about double the current price of diesel.

Blind assertion. As usual.

It's not a blind assertion at all. It's fucking obvious if you bother to think about it for just a few seconds.

If you can make diesel, from high-priced electricity, for less than the price of raw diesel, then you can make it even cheaper from cheaper electricity, that was produced from diesel.
So you can make diesel, from diesel, that's cheaper than diesel.

Ha ha ha. You can then make more diesel from THAT diesel. It's perpetual motion in action.

Brilliant stuff.

[pErvinalia]

Must remember about impending suspensions.... must remember about impending suspensions...

*deep breath*... What the hell does your invention of perpetual motion have to do with the price of diesel??

Making diesel from diesel has absolutely nothing to do with whether synthetic diesel is cheaper than natural diesel.

[mistermack]

Must remember about impending suspensions.... must remember about impending suspensions...

*deep breath*... What the hell does your invention of perpetual motion have to do with the price of diesel??

Making diesel from diesel has absolutely nothing to do with whether synthetic diesel is cheaper than natural diesel.

It's your perpetual motion matey. If you can't work it out, there's no hope for you.

If you think it's possible to make diesel from diesel that's cheaper than the original diesel, you better ask Jim to work it out for you.

[pErvinalia]

[redacted for fear of being suspended again]

[pErvinalia]

Let me try this more calmly...

The cost differential between the two types of diesel is totally unrelated to their energy capacities. If it was related linearly, then what you say would be correct. But fossil diesel electricity would only be so cheap because it is heavily subsidised and a lot of its costs have been externalised. Hence your point makes no sense. In a different market environment, fossil diesel electricity could easily be more expensive than the renewable energy used to create synthetic diesel.

[mistermack]

I don't think oil fired power stations receive a subsidy.

They produce electricity at a cost which is about comparable with wind generation, but massively cheaper than solar.

In any case, it should be obvious that there is no tax involved in their pricing.
If you can produce diesel cheaper from the dearer form of electricity, you can produce it much cheaper from the regular price electricity.

That should surely be obvious to you? So they would be planning right now to produce all road fuel from electricity. The money saved would be gigantic.

[pErvinalia]

They've just invented the process, ffs. If it pans out at an industrial scale, then that's exactly what they will do.

And you are still wrong. ALL fossil fuels in our western industrial societies are subsidised. And as I said, that's not even taking into account the externalities not paid for yet.

As I said, if the two different diesel types were priced according to energy density, then you would be right. But they simply aren't. Well, I'm assuming they aren't as in 99.9999 percent of cases of two random different substances they wouldn't be. If you want to argue on the side of the 0.0000001%, then you need to provide evidence, not baseless assertions. Extraordinary evidence and that...