Jamest is right!

[pErvinalia]

I'm keeping out of it for a bit now. I like kicking him, but the novelty's wearing off now. I simply don't like bullies, so I fuck with them where I can. All the chew's gone out of Seth now, though, and I can't be bothered. Plus, there's hardly anybody left here for him to bully.

He can't bully people here, because we can call his shit out for what it is.

[pErvinalia]

Bully? In what sense is he bullying anyone? I don't grasp that opinion at all.

Neither does Hack. He's just resorting to ad hom because he knows I'm right and he's wrong but he's too afraid of the consequences to his religious beliefs to admit it. Quite a common thing here among the orthodox Atheist zealots.

I don't know much about you, but you're an interesting character, I'll give you that. Nothing wrong with that though. So, fuck 'em.

Thank you. But I don't say "fuck 'em," I actually enjoy the repartee. You see, I have no overblown ego to protect, so if I'm wrong, I'm okay with it because I learn something new. The main problem with Atheists is that they are morally certain of the absolute correctness of their logic and reason. Unfortunately for most of them it's an entirely unwarranted confidence because they so often fail when it comes to sound reasoning and logic, as I take great pains to point out and support with voluminous argumentation. And when you show them the error of their ways, like children, they get all pissed off and throw temper tantrums because they don't like to be told they are wrong and they take it personally, particularly rEv and Hack, but including others as well.

I don't mind their tantrums because, as I said, it's not them I'm playing to, it's the other audience, the lurkers and the visitors that I'm interested in educating, and I'm happy to allow the children here to demonstrate to that audience just exactly how childish and irrational they can be.

You couldn't make this shit up!

[pErvinalia]

Your big problem now, is that you have a theist who likes you and who would like to have a serious discussion with you, in this forum. Your credibility is now probably more fucked than what it already was. My apologies. I'm just being honest.

Seriously, James, there is no possibility of his credibility being more fucked than it is. Seriously. He has a LONG LONG history of abuse of logic and abuse of people. Have a good think before you hitch your wagon to him. Perhaps read some of his evil diatribes from past occasions first.

[Brian Peacock]

All this talk about the supposed illogical atheist position is complete bunkum and a silly red herring. It's not illogical to disbelieve a category of claims, unless there's a logical reason to accept them. Nobody criticising atheism here seems to be putting forward a logical argument for God, a god, or gods by the way - all we've seen is a "You just don't see the error of your ways" plea, backed up with a bit of finger wagging, some broad and specific personal slights, and some nonsense about not meeting the conditions of a definition of atheism put forward by people who don't even identify with the term.

The plain facts are, that atheists are those who don't believe theists, disbelieving theists isn't a form of fundamentalism, it isn't irrational, it doesn't indicate a feeble mind, or group-think, or comprise an ideology or a religion. If theists didn't go about making that certain category of claim the matter of atheism, of what it is and what it means, wouldn't even come up.

[pErvinalia]

[hackenslash]

Fail.

Yes, you did. All of that was complete cock, and there's simply no reasoning with you, which is why all I have for you is the usual, and I can't even be bothered with that at the moment. Maybe I'll call you a cunt some more in a few months, as it's all you're really worthy of.

[Seth]

Well, I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm an unidentifiable theist and you appear to be agnostic. Where does that leave us?

I'm not an agnostic. Agnostics believe that we can never truly know if God exists or his nature. I, on the other hand, believe that we can know with absolute certainty, eventually. When our (human) understanding and knowledge of the universe(s) is perfect, we will know the answer to the question.

Moreover, I leave plenty of room for a deity to exist. I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know enough about the universe to draw any rational conclusion about the existence of God.

I also have theories about the nature of God which involve quantum entanglement and membrane universes.

There's plenty to talk about with me because unlike so many others, I maintain an open mind about things. Mostly though, my role is as an interlocutor and Socratic analyst with the purpose of analyzing your arguments and discussing their strengths and weaknesses with the desired result of both learning from you something I did not know before and assisting you in strengthening and improving the quality of your arguments. And I enjoy the debate for the debate, as I never fail to learn something new.

[pErvinalia]

"GrandMaster Zen Troll" =/= "Socratic analyst"

[Seth]

Seth says atheists are condescending and mean to theists. How horrible and nasty...

Many theists think that anyone who doesn't believe in their particular version of god will suffer an eternity of punishment after they die,

And if they are right, that makes their warnings and pleas charitable, altruistic and compassionate. Even if they are wrong, if they genuinely believe they are right, then their motives for attempting to persuade you to accept salvation are pure and should be respected rather than demeaned.

Great logic. Atheists should be respected rather than demeaned in their genuine belief that theists are ruining the lives of millions of people across the world. When will you, the "Tolerist" , be apologising for disrespecting us atheists?

I have nothing to apologize for. Your actions towards theists are not peaceable, therefore my responses are merely self-defense by proxy. For those atheists who are rational and who act peaceably towards others my comments do not apply, and therefore I owe them no apology. My criticism is directed at Atheists, who by their nature and definition are every bit as unacceptably belligerent, intolerant, and mindlessly zealous as the very worst of theists. And so I call them out on their misbehavior and show them to be what they actually are.

If you're not an Atheist asshole, then don't act like an Atheist asshole. Or in your case, stop acting like an Atheist asshole if you don't want to be treated like one.

Atheists think nobody will suffer anything after they die.

Atheists prefer to get their suffering up front and view death as a surcease from the trials and tribulations of life. If theists are wrong, why do you care what they have to say?[/quote][/quote]

If atheists are wrong, what do you care what they have to say?

Because what they say and do has political, social and religious repercussions that are harmful to civilized society, and since I care about civilized society, I choose to challenge their dogmatism. "All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke.

It's a matter of importance and ethics to me to refute and rebut the irrationality and outright cruelty and evil intentions and actions of Atheists. And since I'm well equipped to debunk Atheist orthodoxy, I choose to do something.

As Hack said, logic is something that happens to people other than yourself, Seth.

Not when you're anywhere around. You're a black hole of logic and reason and those who orbit too close to you have all their reason and logic sucked inside your event horizon if they aren't extremely careful. Somebody's got to set out warning flags to keep the credulous lurkers from stumbling into your singularity.

[Seth]

"GrandMaster Zen Troll" =/= "Socratic analyst"

Unlike you, One-Note Johnny, I have diverse talents and can (and do) occupy many different roles. I analyze when it's called for, and I twit twits like you when it's called for, and I move seamlessly and effortlessly between the two roles as necessary.

[Seth]

Like Muslims, Marxists are allowed (indeed encouraged) to lie about being Marxists if it forwards the Marxist agenda.

What? All billion of them?

You wouldn't let an atheist away with making such a blanket statement about Christians. I'm not letting you get away without making one about Muslims

You're letting your Christianity slip, by the way. I mean its the only explanation as to why you come down hard on atheists while giving Chrsitians a free-pass while hypocritically making disparaging remarks about Muslims. I guess it's not only Muslims and Marxists who lie to forward their agenda.

He's right. It's called Taqiya in Shia islam and idtirar in sunni. Look it up.

Unfortunately for Seth, he's made his bed of illogic, and he's going to have to lie in it. Just as he says the bible doesn't define Christian theism, he has to say that the Koran doesn't define Muslim theism.

The difference is that the Koran doesn't have the equivalent of the New Testament. The New Testament set the rules for Christians and those rules differ enormously from the Old Testament rules that applied to previous generations. The Koran has remained the same since Mohammed wrote it, with no amendments that would differentiate Muslim practice today from Muslim practice at the time of Mohammed.

You keep on making the same mistake because you insist on conflating Christianity with the Old Testament. And it's my opinion that you do it mendaciously and deliberately, given the number of times I've set forth the distinction to you.

Besides, what I actually said is that the Bible doesn't define God. It certainly defines the theology that applies to the specific group it addresses. Then again, not all adherents interpret things the same way, and many twist the interpretations to suit their own agendas, which says absolutely nothing about the existence or nature of God.

[Seth]

My dad told me not to stick things in power sockets, and I listened to him because I respected him. He didn't have to electrocute me.

Maybe he should have. Might have shocked some sense of compassion into you. But I doubt you listened to him all that much at four years old.

[pErvinalia]

Seth says atheists are condescending and mean to theists. How horrible and nasty...

Many theists think that anyone who doesn't believe in their particular version of god will suffer an eternity of punishment after they die,

And if they are right, that makes their warnings and pleas charitable, altruistic and compassionate. Even if they are wrong, if they genuinely believe they are right, then their motives for attempting to persuade you to accept salvation are pure and should be respected rather than demeaned.

Great logic. Atheists should be respected rather than demeaned in their genuine belief that theists are ruining the lives of millions of people across the world. When will you, the "Tolerist" , be apologising for disrespecting us atheists?

I have nothing to apologize for. Your actions towards theists are not peaceable,

What actions?!? I've only written words. Same as theists writing that I am going to burn in hell. If their beliefs are ok, why not ours? Your logic stinks. It's exactly as Ani pointed out, you are a Christian apologists. Fuck all other theists.

therefore my responses are merely self-defense by proxy.

You really don't understand logic, do you? My responses are mere self-defence by proxy for the gays that are tormented by hateful Christians.

For those atheists who are rational and who act peaceably towards others my comments do not apply, and therefore I owe them no apology. My criticism is directed at Atheists, who by their nature and definition are every bit as unacceptably belligerent, intolerant, and mindlessly zealous as the very worst of theists. And so I call them out on their misbehavior and show them to be what they actually are.

You really don't understand logic, do you? We call the very worst of the theists out on their misbehaviour and show them to be what they actually are.

If you're not an Atheist asshole, then don't act like an Atheist asshole. Or in your case, stop acting like an Atheist asshole if you don't want to be treated like one.

If you are not an illogical Christian apologist, then don't act like an illogical Christian apologist. Or in your case, stop acting like an illogical Christian apologist if you don't wan to be treated like one.

Atheists think nobody will suffer anything after they die.

Atheists prefer to get their suffering up front and view death as a surcease from the trials and tribulations of life. If theists are wrong, why do you care what they have to say?

If atheists are wrong, what do you care what they have to say?

Because what they say and do has political, social and religious repercussions that are harmful to civilized society, and since I care about civilized society, I choose to challenge their dogmatism. "All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke.

You really don't understand logic, do you? That's exactly what we do.

It's a matter of importance and ethics to me to refute and rebut the irrationality and outright cruelty and evil intentions and actions of Atheists. And since I'm well equipped to debunk Atheist orthodoxy, I choose to do something.

Couldn't agree more.

[pErvinalia]

"GrandMaster Zen Troll" =/= "Socratic analyst"

Unlike you, One-Note Johnny, I have diverse talents and can (and do) occupy many different roles. I analyze when it's called for, and I twit twits like you when it's called for, and I move seamlessly and effortlessly between the two roles as necessary.

Sure you do. You're a troll, plain and simple.

[Seth]

But that doesn't mean we just let them go back to doing what they were doing.

Of course not.

We say that we think that belief is unacceptable behaviour in an evidence based civilised society.

Funny, 85 percent of humanity thinks we live in a religiously-based civilized society. You're in the minority, and therefore you should STFU and kiss the Pope's ring...if you believe in democracy that is. Do you?

And that's the same thing we should do with the religious torment of innocent children.

Eighty five percent of the planet's human inhabitants disagree with you. Therefore, democracy demands that you shut the fuck up and soldier.