It's one rule for Russia, the complete opposite for Saudi

[mistermack]

Looking at it tactically, Putin has run rings around the west.
Firstly, they wanted to make things awkward for Russia, by getting Ukraine on side, and forcing Russia to find a new home for their Black Sea Fleet, currently berthed in Crimea. That was the real attraction of Ukraine.
There is a very real suspicion that the ''revolution'' in Kiev was actually engineered and started by the CIA.
It was originally portrayed as the police starting the shooting, but now it's leaking out that a few people were paid and instructed to start the shooting by shadowy figures. They were reportedly paid and ordered to fire on their own side, to get the thing going.

Also there was a declaration of intent by Nato, some time ago, to eventually get Ukraine and Georgia into Nato. Something the Russians vehemently oppose. With good justification, because part of the agreement when those countries were granted independence was neutrality.
It's a blatant breach of faith.
But the situation now is that Putin has Crimea, and it's never going back. And Russia has a secure foothold in eastern Ukraine, and a good lump of Georgia.

How can the west now include Ukraine or Georgia into Nato? They are bound to defend any Nato member as if they were themselves. So if Ukraine joins, Nato is immediately at war with Russia.
Same with Georgia.

It would be a giant step, and I can't see them doing it. They might threaten it, and say that it's in the plan, but it would be a giant step towards all out war.

So there's no chance whatsoever of Putin, or any sober Russian leader, pulling out of Eastern Ukraine or Georgia. Not a cat in hell's chance.

[JimC]

As far as Saudi and the Yemen thing goes, all I can say is thank fuck that muslims like killing each other so much. Long may the vicious war between Sunni and Shiite continue...

[klr]

For one thing, Saudi Arabia is not simply "attacking Yemen". For another thing Russia has a shit-ton on oil and natural gas also.

They are attacking Yemeni people on Yemeni soil. Russia didn't attack Ukrainians on Ukrainian soil.

Oh really??? Go explain that in Ukraine.

And the Saudis have all the power in the Oil game. Russia has none.
The Saudis can pump as little or as much as they like. The Russians can't afford to stop pumping. If they did, it would be catastrophic for the country.

Sorta true, but you're the only one thinking world reaction must be all about oil. Nonsense. These are very different conflicts with very different aims for the nations involved. Unlike Ukraine's wishes regarding Russia, what's left of Yemen's government is just fine with Saudi (not to mention many other) operations against the Houthis. And Saudi Arabia is not looking to appropriate any territory into its own.

There's no comparison.

Right... so why are you making one and complaining about a double standard?

mistermack, you should listen to this man ... he has access to intelligence that you can only dream of.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

For one thing, Saudi Arabia is not simply "attacking Yemen". For another thing Russia has a shit-ton on oil and natural gas also.

They are attacking Yemeni people on Yemeni soil. Russia didn't attack Ukrainians on Ukrainian soil.

Oh really??? Go explain that in Ukraine.

And the Saudis have all the power in the Oil game. Russia has none.
The Saudis can pump as little or as much as they like. The Russians can't afford to stop pumping. If they did, it would be catastrophic for the country.

Sorta true, but you're the only one thinking world reaction must be all about oil. Nonsense. These are very different conflicts with very different aims for the nations involved. Unlike Ukraine's wishes regarding Russia, what's left of Yemen's government is just fine with Saudi (not to mention many other) operations against the Houthis. And Saudi Arabia is not looking to appropriate any territory into its own.

There's no comparison.

Right... so why are you making one and complaining about a double standard?

mistermack, you should listen to this man ... he has access to intelligence that you can only dream of.

That's true of most rodents in mistermack's case, to be honest.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

As far as Saudi and the Yemen thing goes, all I can say is thank fuck that muslims like killing each other so much. Long may the vicious war between Sunni and Shiite continue...

The trouble is, the ones doing the killing are not killing each-other. They are killing innocents of the same denomination as the other. All this does is create more hatred, more fundamentalists, more killers.

I know a lot of muslims - some very well. They are just people. Getting tribal about this helps no-one. You can't dismiss death because it is muslim death.

If you can watch a child die and not mourn because it is on the other side, then it is you that is on the wrong side.

[klr]

Amen to that. There but for "the grace of God" go we.

[JimC]

As far as Saudi and the Yemen thing goes, all I can say is thank fuck that muslims like killing each other so much. Long may the vicious war between Sunni and Shiite continue...

The trouble is, the ones doing the killing are not killing each-other. They are killing innocents of the same denomination as the other. All this does is create more hatred, more fundamentalists, more killers.

I know a lot of muslims - some very well. They are just people. Getting tribal about this helps no-one. You can't dismiss death because it is muslim death.

If you can watch a child die and not mourn because it is on the other side, then it is you that is on the wrong side.

OK, I'll restrict it to Sunni extremists like ISIS and crazed Shiite militia...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

As far as Saudi and the Yemen thing goes, all I can say is thank fuck that muslims like killing each other so much. Long may the vicious war between Sunni and Shiite continue...

The trouble is, the ones doing the killing are not killing each-other. They are killing innocents of the same denomination as the other. All this does is create more hatred, more fundamentalists, more killers.

I know a lot of muslims - some very well. They are just people. Getting tribal about this helps no-one. You can't dismiss death because it is muslim death.

If you can watch a child die and not mourn because it is on the other side, then it is you that is on the wrong side.

OK, I'll restrict it to Sunni extremists like ISIS and crazed Shiite militia...

Yeah. We'd all like to see those fuckers kill each other. But that's just not how it works. They don't lock horns. They battle through innocent proxies. The shits!

[mistermack]

mistermack, you should listen to this man ... he has access to intelligence that you can only dream of.

Yeh, but he keeps it well hidden.
You have to give him credit for that.

[Ian]

As opposed to you, who articulates a remarkable lack of intelligence in great detail.

[mistermack]

As opposed to you, who articulates a remarkable lack of intelligence in great detail.

Don't be so modest.

I could never have done it without your inspired example.