The Shadow of Munich Haunts the Iran Negotiations

[JimC]

It's not arrogant when we have the power to turn them into a grease spot and stand to lose if they screw things up. It's not arrogance for a gang leader to forbid one underling from jacking trucks in the South Side, and another from peddling dope on the West Side, it's a function of power, and within his remit.

Yes, if they were developing nuclear weapons.

No, if they are generating electricity only.

Granted, it is somewhat of a slippery slope...

[cronus]

It's not arrogant when we have the power to turn them into a grease spot and stand to lose if they screw things up. It's not arrogance for a gang leader to forbid one underling from jacking trucks in the South Side, and another from peddling dope on the West Side, it's a function of power, and within his remit.

Yes, if they were developing nuclear weapons.

No, if they are generating electricity only.

Granted, it is somewhat of a slippery slope...

...easy to generate electricity with the oil they are not exporting...

[piscator]

A hella lot cheaper over the next 100 years too, given their limits of authority.

[mistermack]

It's not arrogant when we have the power to turn them into a grease spot and stand to lose if they screw things up. It's not arrogance for a gang leader to forbid one underling from jacking trucks in the South Side, and another from peddling dope on the West Side, it's a function of power, and within his remit.

No, it's exactly arrogance. Having the power to do something doesn't confer the right to do it.
Arrogance is having an inflated idea of your own importance, and trying to impose your own wishes on others without a moral right. It's not solely overestimating your own power.

The West has no moral authority over Iran, especially when it comes to nuclear weapons, which they already have in abundance. It's huge arrogance to say that we have a right to them, even Israel has a right to them, but Iran doesn't.

Having the power to do something doesn't make it less arrogant.

The Nazis arrogant? Nah, they had the power to exterminate the jews, so that wasn't arrogant.

[JimC]

mistermack wrote:

...The West has no moral authority over Iran, especially when it comes to nuclear weapons, which they already have in abundance. ...

Not according to all the reports I have ever read...

[mistermack]

mistermack wrote:

...The West has no moral authority over Iran, especially when it comes to nuclear weapons, which they already have in abundance. ...

Not according to all the reports I have ever read...

Depends who you mean by they. I meant, they, themselves.
Should have been clearer.

I find it ironic though, that Americans should have trouble with the concept of arrogance.

[pErvinalia]

Sometimes your word soup is almost poetic in some bizarre and surreal way.

"Sometimes" is the critical word there...

[pErvinalia]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-improve ... rogressed/

Clearly there is stuff happening - we don't see, with these sorts of 'negotiations' but if I was a betting man I'd put the odds on a large crater where that reactor is within the next few months, albeit it's been a long time coming and will probably require a 48hr 'back to the stone age' swipe to clear the risks involved and win the battle decisively? If you listen to what the Iranians have been saying lately it is obvious...they are making last minute confessions...

If you were a betting man, you would have been broke a long time ago!

[Warren Dew]

It's not arrogant when we have the power to turn them into a grease spot and stand to lose if they screw things up. It's not arrogance for a gang leader to forbid one underling from jacking trucks in the South Side, and another from peddling dope on the West Side, it's a function of power, and within his remit.

Yes, if they were developing nuclear weapons.

No, if they are generating electricity only.

Granted, it is somewhat of a slippery slope...

If they were generating electricity only, even from nuclear plants, they wouldn't need their own reprocessing facilities. They could send their uranium ore overseas to be processed into nuclear fuel, same way they get their crude oil processed into gasoline.

[pErvinalia]

Who we gunna bomb now?!!

[mistermack]

It's not arrogant when we have the power to turn them into a grease spot and stand to lose if they screw things up. It's not arrogance for a gang leader to forbid one underling from jacking trucks in the South Side, and another from peddling dope on the West Side, it's a function of power, and within his remit.

Yes, if they were developing nuclear weapons.

No, if they are generating electricity only.

Granted, it is somewhat of a slippery slope...

If they were generating electricity only, even from nuclear plants, they wouldn't need their own reprocessing facilities. They could send their uranium ore overseas to be processed into nuclear fuel, same way they get their crude oil processed into gasoline.

It's all about saving face.
They can't be seen to be backing down. It's the culture. Same in most places.
It's perfectly obvious that they wanted a bomb, and are backing down. But they need to save face for the voters and the clerics benefit.

Now it's time for Israel to get massive sanctions, and a watertight inspection regime, to make sure they have no nuclear weapons. But it will never happen, because Israel is the missing US state.

When you look at how hard it's been for Iran to make nukes, it's perfectly obvious that Israel could never have done it. The US did it for them.

[cronus]

America hasn't had a big war for a while. Twitchy trigger fingers....twitching.

[JimC]

mistermack wrote:

...The West has no moral authority over Iran, especially when it comes to nuclear weapons, which they already have in abundance. ...

Not according to all the reports I have ever read...

Depends who you mean by they. I meant, they, themselves.
Should have been clearer.

I find it ironic though, that Americans should have trouble with the concept of arrogance.

Gotcha...

[JimC]

It's not arrogant when we have the power to turn them into a grease spot and stand to lose if they screw things up. It's not arrogance for a gang leader to forbid one underling from jacking trucks in the South Side, and another from peddling dope on the West Side, it's a function of power, and within his remit.

Yes, if they were developing nuclear weapons.

No, if they are generating electricity only.

Granted, it is somewhat of a slippery slope...

If they were generating electricity only, even from nuclear plants, they wouldn't need their own reprocessing facilities. They could send their uranium ore overseas to be processed into nuclear fuel, same way they get their crude oil processed into gasoline.

That is true, certainly, but in the long run, it means less dependency on foreign countries, which, given their experience with sanctions, is something they would crave.

As a sovereign nation, surely they have the right to decide on which industries they will employ? (Having said that, I think it is reasonable for the international community to veto their right to develop or own nuclear weapons, for pragmatic reasons...)

The devil is in the details, specifically how certain the west can be that any agreed inspection regime would be robust enough to detect a covert ability to enrich Uranium to the 90% level required for a nuclear device.

[cronus]

They believe in the end of the world and are actively seeking nukes. Bad combination.