Hey Hillary sycophants, watch and read

[pErvinalia]

Well it's certainly happening in all western countries, less so in the scandinavian ones, though. But it's epicentre is the US. And then you get the US trying to foist undemocratic free trade agreements on everyone, like the TPP, as a proxy for giant multi-national corporations. But that will never change while America is full of people like you and Seth who see neoliberal corporatists like Clinton as left-wingers, or even more idiotic, socialists.

"Undemocratic free trade?" WTF. Free trade is the very essence of democracy. We get to vote with every dime we spend and our votes are keenly watched and carefully accounted for by the markets, which respond on a daily basis to our votes.

One dollar one vote isn't democracy.

And that's not even what I was talking about, above. I was referring to the Investor State Resolution bullshit in these agreements. It allows corporations to sue sovereign nations if they democratically introduce legislation and regulations that said corporations don't like. THAT is what's undemocratic about them. Not to mention that these deals are negotiated without parliamentary oversight yet business is allowed in on the negotiations.

Man, you are so un-libertarian it's not funny.

The reason such agreements (which are negotiated with the states involved) exist is because Marxist states like, oh, let's say Venezuela, have a nasty habit of simply expropriating billions of dollars worth of investment capital in the form of land and improvements, not to mention resources made available for exploitation by private capital, and declaring it the property of the "people" (usually meaning the ruling cabal). In other words, one administration entices companies to invest in the nation by building infrastructure and creating jobs and profits, and along comes a Marxist revolution and a new regime that repudiates all former agreements and simply seizes everything the company has invested.

Corporations almost always outlast individual regimes or administrations, so they want assurances that the agreements they make that bring prosperity and jobs to some nation will not be taken away at the whims of some Marxist/socialist fucks who want to share the wealth...with themselves.

It's perfectly reasonable of a corporation willing to invest billions of dollars in improving the lives of the people of a particular nation to want to be sure their investment is not stranded by a covetous government intent on keeping the profits for itself, and it's perfectly reasonable and legal for those companies to lobby for legislation in their home country that will allow them to freeze and ultimately seize control of assets of that nation that reside in their home country if those agreements are violated.

That's why Venezuela went from being a shit-hole 3rd world country into one of the largest oil exporters in the world. Venezuela didn't have the money or the expertise to exploit its own oil resources, nor the technology and infrastructure. All of that was created by the oil companies based on negotiated agreements about ownership of the infrastructure and division of the profits between the state and the corporation. Without the ability of the corporation to sue in the US to seize assets of the Venezuelan government if the government violates those agreements as a form of collateral, Venezuela would still be a third world shithole without any oil production because Venezuela can't afford to drill for it.

So once again your Marxist indoctrination leads you down the primrose path of socialism, which leads straight to hell because Marxist useful idiots are too fucking stupid to understand how things actually work.

And the victory of Marxism (sarcasm intended) in Venezuela has Venezuelan resort hotels telling potential tourists to bring their own toilet paper when they come to visit (although why anyone would do so is beyond me), because the expropriation of corporate assets by the regime resulted in the utter collapse of the oil industry as the corporations pulled out their technical personnel and shut down the wells.

So much for Marxist superiority. Shot themselves right square in the ass this time, and now they are doomed to a long term socialist "utopia" of wiping their asses with pebbles and leaves and eating bugs because no corporation will risk investing in Venezuela again for a very, very long time, if ever.

Marxist nonsense ignored. None of this changes the fact that these deals are undemocratic for the two (at least) reasons I stated above. I don't know why I bother debating with you. You are incapable of understanding even the most simplest of facts and logic.

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

People who know bad things about the Clintons, including state police officers and Vince Foster, die under the oddest of circumstances and most conveniently in order to keep their secrets secret.

Gotta love the paranoia levels...

[Seth]

America is certainly doomed if you don't wake up to the right-wing corporate take-over of your country.

It's not a take over, it's a feature of the system. You see, corporations can't "take over" anything unless we, the Consumers, want them to. Our "democratic" control over corporations is much more effective, much faster and much more final than our political system. If a corporation does what we want, we immediately reward it with our patronage. If it doesn't, we ignore it. If it acts contrary to the will of the Consumers, we actively remove it from the equation by putting it out of business.

The free market is the fastest-acting and most effective democratic control system in existence.

One dollar one vote, isn't democracy.

Sure it is, particularly if you don't spend the dollar at all. No dollars, no votes, no votes, no power.

Umm.. no it's not democracy. Democracy is one person one vote. It's not a democracy if some people have more votes than others. That's a plutocracy.

Depends on what you're voting for. It's not democracy when the dependent class majority gets to vote itself other people's money.

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

People who know bad things about the Clintons, including state police officers and Vince Foster, die under the oddest of circumstances and most conveniently in order to keep their secrets secret.

Gotta love the paranoia levels...

Tell it to Vince's family...

[Svartalf]

One dollar one vote, isn't democracy.

No, it's plutocracy, the natural state of Merka