Black boxes. Another failure.

[mistermack]

Anyway, what happened to the black box data recorder, as in the OP ?
I haven't heard that they've found it, even though they claim to have found body parts of the co-pilot.
Is a puny human sitting at the front more durable than a black box data recorder at the back of the plane?
It seems so. Or maybe I missed where they found it.
They know where to look, within a few hundred metres.
It must be in very small bits.

[Seth]

Someone needs to declare limits on tolerance.

Er, that's what physicians and lawmakers do. As it happens, according to the rules, even someone who is taking any sort of medication for depression, no matter how minor, is not supposed to be left alone in the cockpit of a passenger aircraft. Once again it appears that Lufthansa failed to do what was ALREADY required of them with respect to this particular pilot.

People with deep depression need to be taken off the streets.

May we send the bill to you?

For their own safety and more crucially to safeguard other people.

Er, that's already the law, if an individual reasonably appears to present a clear and present danger to himself or others he may be detained by the police and admitted to a hospital on a "72 hour mental hold" by any police officer, where mental health professionals will examine and evaluate the individual. By the way, an involuntary commitment to a mental health facility (not just a 72 hour hold) disqualifies the individual from possessing firearms in the US, for the rest of their life.

It is that simple.

You're trying to teach your grandpa to suck eggs. This has been legislated, regulated and discussed for decades. Here in the US, and I suspect in the EU as well, you can thank liberals, in our case the ACLU for emptying mental health facilities. Decades ago they sued over conditions in mental hospitals and how individuals were being "warehoused" in asylums where their basic civil rights were being violated merely because they were "depressed" or had other non-dangerous mental illnesses. This resulted in the very places you are advocating for being shut down and mentally-ill people, many of them barely able to care for themselves, being kicked out onto the streets. This is why there are so many mentally ill people who are homeless and wandering the streets. Unless they pose an IMMINENT danger to themselves or others, they cannot be hospitalized or detained, and even checking up on them can get the police charged with harassment. This makes it pretty tough to do anything about mental illness that does not manifest in violent symptoms until it does so. In this case, it did so undetectably, right up until he was given the chance to lock the cockpit door when left alone, which he never should have been.

I am like The Daily Mail reporter who tells the truth. It might be ugly but the truth is what it is.

Tell it to the ACLU and other groups who are more concerned with "protecting" a mentally ill person's civil rights than protecting either the mentally ill person or society.

We used to just lock them up in insane asylums and forget about them. No more.

[Seth]

I'm not qualified to give a diagnosis that is true. For me the main question with regards violence revolves around anti-depressent meds. I've read up and seen with my own eyes how some of these meds workout in the real world. Not good. People get wired on them - short and sharp, passive aggressive. And then there is the dangerous period when coming off meds...which gives energy but no sensible game plan.

Complete nonsense. I take anti-depressants and I'm neither "wired" nor "passive aggressive." Such symptoms may manifest in SOME patients, but that's why doctors monitor a patient's progress. The problem is that privacy laws in the EU are quite strict and prohibit physicians from reporting anything unless the individual actually tells the doctor they feel like doing something violent. All the evidence points towards the fact that this guy very, very carefully concealed his intentions with substantial deliberation, which is the same as a jihadist eschewing Islam for the purposes of killing people by deceit.

There are simply some things we cannot either predict, detect or prevent. Except this probably could have been prevented if Lufthansa had done what every US airline does: prohibit there being only one person in the cockpit at all times.

If a senior crew member had simply stood inside the cockpit door, where the copilot could not reach him or her before he or she could unlock the door, this would not have happened.

Lufthansa is going to pay through the nose for this, and should.

[Seth]

Anyway, what happened to the black box data recorder, as in the OP ?
I haven't heard that they've found it, even though they claim to have found body parts of the co-pilot.
Is a puny human sitting at the front more durable than a black box data recorder at the back of the plane?
It seems so. Or maybe I missed where they found it.
They know where to look, within a few hundred metres.
It must be in very small bits.

There are two black boxes, the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder. The cockpit voice recorder was recovered, but was severely damaged. They still managed to recover the audio. The flight data recorder appears to have been utterly destroyed. They are certified to survive crashes up to about 320 knots, but the aircraft impacted at more than 400 knots, so it's unrealistic to expect it to survive such an impact.

Still, the voice recorder has provided just about all the evidence needed to prove that this was a deliberate act, not a failure of an aircraft system, so the flight data recorder is somewhat extraneous to the situation, although it would be good if it's recovered.

[mistermack]

Yes, I know there are two boxes. Apparently, they found the outside casing of the data recorder, but the insides haven't turned up.
Don't they know that planes go at 500mph? Is it some kind of secret, that was kept from the designers?
If it didn't survive, then it's a design failure.
Sure, they must be pretty robust, when hoovering round them. I'm sure they stand up to people knocking them in passing. They just fall down a bit in a plane crash.

If they found body parts that they identified as the co-pilot, you would think something designed to withstand a crash, might withstand a crash enough to be recognised at least.

[cronus]

They should stream the content to external providers - not every plane crash is black box friendly. A 500mph impact isn't gonna leave much intact inside anything technological, no matter what the small print says.

[Svartalf]

what you spouted about the Red Army being in Kiev in hours if htey wanted... moscow would also get glasssed and a major nuclear winter would follow, and putin does not want that

[cronus]

what you spouted about the Red Army being in Kiev in hours if htey wanted... moscow would also get glasssed and a major nuclear winter would follow, and putin does not want that

Kiev is full on fascist. Who cares - what they want or not? Make a siege and their ideology will do the rest with regards cannibalism and full on moral bankruptcy. After six months the place will be a walk over.

[pErvinalia]

I'm not qualified to give a diagnosis that is true. For me the main question with regards violence revolves around anti-depressent meds. I've read up and seen with my own eyes how some of these meds workout in the real world. Not good. People get wired on them - short and sharp, passive aggressive. And then there is the dangerous period when coming off meds...which gives energy but no sensible game plan.

Nice opinion. Got any evidence to back that up?

[JimC]

This sort of thing rather confirms my paranoid decision never, ever to fly...

If you're that paranoid, you should never leave your house, particularly to get in an automobile, which is thousands of times more dangerous than commercial flying.

I quite agree that it is irrational.

However, since every other thing about me is totally rational, and very, very clever, I can forgive myself this one lapse...

[pErvinalia]

I like black boxes.

[Rum]

This sort of thing rather confirms my paranoid decision never, ever to fly...

If you're that paranoid, you should never leave your house, particularly to get in an automobile, which is thousands of times more dangerous than commercial flying.

I quite agree that it is irrational.

However, since every other thing about me is totally rational, and very, very clever, I can forgive myself this one lapse...

Personally I am full of irrationality. I still won't fly.

But then I'm just cuckoo..

[mistermack]

what you spouted about the Red Army being in Kiev in hours if htey wanted... moscow would also get glasssed and a major nuclear winter would follow, and putin does not want that

So, you know that for a fact, do you? It's you that are spouting shit from the wrong end. You are claiming that you know what the West would do. Where do you get this special knowledge from?
Are you buddies with Obama by any chance? And you seem to know what Putin does or doesn't want.
Are you buddies with Putin by any other chance?

Or are you just stating as fact any old shit that pops into your mind?

I would point to the fact that Putin has taken Crimea, nobody did a thing, other than freeze a few bank accounts. Moscow is still there, and the only glass is in the windows where it should be.

He sent the tanks into Georgia, and grabbed large chunks. He still has those chunks and nobody did anything.

Maybe Obama doesn't want an all-out nuclear war. Didn't that occur to you at all?

And you criticise me for spouting rubbish about stuff that I don't understand??

[Seth]

I like black boxes.

Sorry, they're pink, just like every other box....

[cronus]

I like black boxes.

Sorry, they're pink, just like every other box....

Except the one I revived which is greenish blue...then it is ailen...as Seth knows...