Black boxes. Another failure.

[cronus]

Watched that Inception movie again earlier, makes you consider those altered states of consciousness whether med or natural brain chemical induced - leading to tragic consequences.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

We're still presuming a mental health diagnosis, but something like epilepsy would keep him out of the cockpit, as would the side effects of strong chemo.

He might have had a cancer diagnosis and decided to check out early. That sort of news can seriously fuck up ones logical reasoning ability.

[pErvinalia]

And being caught in that impossible trap, in a vulnerable state, could lead to homicidal resentment.

Oh really?

[pErvinalia]

It'd be interesting to see if meds for depression were involved? A well known side effect of anti-depressent usages is suicidal thinking during 'recovery' stage. The most dangerous time for a depressive is in the initial stages of recovery when meds give the lift whilst thinking might still be rather bleak. If it's med induced suicide then the prescribing doctors are in part culpable for not alerting the airline of the medical situation directly.

It's not suicide (alone) when 150 murders are involved.

[mistermack]

It's not suicide (alone) when 150 murders are involved.

Oh really ?

Amazing, Holmes.

[JimC]

This sort of thing rather confirms my paranoid decision never, ever to fly...

[Rum]

I'm with you there Jim lad. I think I could just about force myself onto a plane to go to a destination, but I would be so anxious about the return journey it would spoil the visit.

And I don't care what the statistics say. If there's the remotest chance of being on a plane diving into the ground and me knowing about it for several minutes before hand - forget it!

[pErvinalia]

It's not suicide (alone) when 150 murders are involved.

Oh really ?

Amazing, Holmes.

The problem is, that a lot of people and media articles are treating this as a case of suicide. It's clearly not suicide alone if there is mass murder involved. It's clearly more murder than suicide. So said people need to explain how it is they think depression can lead to mass murder. Saying it leads to suicide is easy for them, but that's just lazy thinking.

[cronus]

Murder-suicide needs a word all of its own after this? Call it muicide?

[mistermack]

I'm with you there Jim lad. I think I could just about force myself onto a plane to go to a destination, but I would be so anxious about the return journey it would spoil the visit.

And I don't care what the statistics say. If there's the remotest chance of being on a plane diving into the ground and me knowing about it for several minutes before hand - forget it!

I had a panic attack before takeoff once. It wasn't the fear of crashing. Just hyperventilation due to flying being unusual for me.
But it was horrific till I realised what it was. My heart was pounding fit to burst, and I felt I just couldn't breathe. That was sitting on the tarmac waiting to taxi. It was so violent, I actually thought it could kill me, and was nearly at the point of shouting I had to get off.
Something jumped into my head that it was hyperventilation, and I forced myself to slow my breathing right down, holding on the exhale as long as I could bear it. [which is the opposite of what your body is telling you to do, when you feel you can't breathe].
It worked almost immediately. Within seconds, I was feeling a bit better, and after a minute, I was almost normal. But what a shit experience. It'll never happen again, now I know the symptoms, and how to stop it.
I hadn't been feeling worried, or scared. Just a little excitement, I guess, made me breathe too fast, and started the process rolling.
On the return trip, no problem at all. I just consciously breathed slow, just in case.

As far as fear of crashing goes, it's there of course, but I don't imagine it's any worse than having a heart-attack or stroke. People die all the time, one way or another. It's all scary, for me.

[Rum]

Growing up as an expat and living in Hong Kong for 20 or so years we used to fly 'home' to the UK for my dad's home leave entitlement. He used to get six months every three years (a pretty good deal!). We flew that route half a dozen times and had two 'events'. The first was an engine failing resulting in returning to the airport we had just left and the second was somewhere near Viet Nam during the war when we were buzzed by fighter jets (no idea if they were American or North Vietnamese (from the USSR then). The second event resulted in our plane dropping several hundred or more feet. Stuff actually floated off tables for a moment and it was terrifying. Never did find out what that was about. Perhaps we left our allotted corridor.

Anyway it was after that that I decided that my flying luck was up!

In passing we also did that trip several times by sea. It was the most fabulous journey, stopping every few days at ports along the way. I am sure it was also statistically far more dangerous, but it sure didn't feel it!

[mistermack]

The problem is, that a lot of people and media articles are treating this as a case of suicide. It's clearly not suicide alone if there is mass murder involved. It's clearly more murder than suicide. So said people need to explain how it is they think depression can lead to mass murder. Saying it leads to suicide is easy for them, but that's just lazy thinking.

Sounds like your own straw opponent. Or I must have missed all those people and media. Most of the ones I've seen treat it as obviously mass murder.

Plenty of them made the point that he was a glider pilot, and could easily have killed just himself by flying his glider into the Alps, if that's what he wanted. So killing lots of people was obviously his aim.

To me, it shouts of resentment against the world. As I posted earlier, he was in an impossible corner, with shit options whichever way he turned. In a depressed state, you can lash out at the world put you in that hole. I wouldn't dream of it myself, but I can see how someone could feel that way.

[mistermack]

The second event resulted in our plane dropping several hundred or more feet. Stuff actually floated off tables for a moment and it was terrifying. Never did find out what that was about. Perhaps we left our allotted corridor.

That would be severe wind shear clear air turbulence, or a microburst. It's a downdraught so powerful that the plane accelerates towards the ground at roughly 32 feet per second per second. Exactly the same as free-fall, so objects become weightless. It happens fairly regularly, and doesn't often cause too much harm, although people can even hit the ceiling, if it's greater than 32. But there is usually a warning, and people are told to fasten their belts. That's at altitude.

On the very rare occasions that it happens on the approach to landing, it would be a microburst downdraught from a thunder cloud. That can put you on the ground. But the radar usually gives pilots and controllers a clear warning, and they just go around till it's clear.

I just dwell on the statistics, and tell myself it's the safest way to travel. But it does feel less safe than it actually is. Especially when it gets a bit bouncy.

[pErvinalia]

The problem is, that a lot of people and media articles are treating this as a case of suicide. It's clearly not suicide alone if there is mass murder involved. It's clearly more murder than suicide. So said people need to explain how it is they think depression can lead to mass murder. Saying it leads to suicide is easy for them, but that's just lazy thinking.

Sounds like your own straw opponent. Or I must have missed all those people and media. Most of the ones I've seen treat it as obviously mass murder.

Plenty of them made the point that he was a glider pilot, and could easily have killed just himself by flying his glider into the Alps, if that's what he wanted. So killing lots of people was obviously his aim.

To me, it shouts of resentment against the world. As I posted earlier, he was in an impossible corner, with shit options whichever way he turned. In a depressed state, you can lash out at the world put you in that hole. I wouldn't dream of it myself, but I can see how someone could feel that way.

You did miss it. Not least the post by scumple I was replying to. There's even media articles now raising the same point I'm raising. And not to mention the strange idea that depression could lead someone to mass murder. That doesn't sound like any depression i've ever heard of (or suffered from).

[mistermack]

You did miss it. Not least the post by scumple I was replying to. There's even media articles now raising the same point I'm raising. And not to mention the strange idea that depression could lead someone to mass murder. That doesn't sound like any depression i've ever heard of (or suffered from).

Scumple's post did talk about his suicide. Your straw man, is that people are treating it as suicide alone.
It's perfectly obvious that the mass murder was intimately bound up with the suicide.
There was never any prospect of this guy killing 150 people, and trying to get away with it.

The big decision is to end it all. Taking other people with him is only an option, if he decides to kill himself. So it's perfectly reasonable that people are speculating about why he killed himself. Without it, there would be no mass murder.