It just gets better and better for gun owners

[Seth]

I may discuss the migration of persons from Ebola zones into the US in a different manner than I discuss Libertarian philosophy.

Oh right. So basically you are full of shit. Thanks for clarifying that.

No, what it means is that as Aristotle said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it,

Except, that's not what you are doing. You pull this bollocks every time someone points out one of your many inconsistencies. And you do it WITHIN the same topic and thread as well. You're basically a guy who has a set of beliefs that he thinks is encompassed by the ideology of libertarianism, but hasn't spent the time to look into the contradiction his beliefs hold with the ideology.

And you are a guy who is completely, deliberately and maliciously ignorant of Libertarianism who hasn't the capacity to argue about it rationally. If you were, you'd be arguing and supporting those arguments with respect to those "contradictions." Instead you just hurl insults because you're wrong and you know it.

[Seth]

It's because you are a troll, cockhead.

Ipse dixit, quod erat demonstrandum

[pErvinalia]

I may discuss the migration of persons from Ebola zones into the US in a different manner than I discuss Libertarian philosophy.

Oh right. So basically you are full of shit. Thanks for clarifying that.

No, what it means is that as Aristotle said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it,

Except, that's not what you are doing. You pull this bollocks every time someone points out one of your many inconsistencies. And you do it WITHIN the same topic and thread as well. You're basically a guy who has a set of beliefs that he thinks is encompassed by the ideology of libertarianism, but hasn't spent the time to look into the contradiction his beliefs hold with the ideology.

And you are a guy who is completely, deliberately and maliciously ignorant of Libertarianism who hasn't the capacity to argue about it rationally. If you were, you'd be arguing and supporting those arguments with respect to those "contradictions." Instead you just hurl insults because you're wrong and you know it.

I point out your contradictions and you claim you do it on purpose. What a load of bullshit.

[pErvinalia]

It's because you are a troll, cockhead. Stop trolling and people might start treating you with respect.

Ipse dixit, quod erat demonstrandum

That's right, it's a good demonstration of how trolls are properly dismissed.

[Seth]

Half Of Tulsa’s Homicides This Year Have Been Justified
6:27 PM 02/20/2015

Tulsa, Okla., residents are on a shooting spree this year, and apparently they’re doing something right.

Tulsa has had 11 homicides in 2015, nearly half of them by regular people acting legally in self defense, Tulsa World reports.

“It’s been an odd year,” Tulsa police homicide Sgt. Dave Walker told Tulsa World. “I’m sure it will even out over the next 12 months, but, yeah … it’s been odd.”

This year’s slew of regular people defending themselves is a huge spike from the previous year. In 2014, only eight self-defense homicides occurred in Tulsa, and police were responsible for six. None of the homicides this year have been at the hands of police.

Oklahoma’s laws have broad protections for those who protect themselves. State statutes expanded in 2006 and 2011 to increase residents’ liberties in defending themselves. Oklahoma residents can fight back with deadly force if they believe a home intruder may physically attack them, even if they don’t fear for their life.

Essentially, if you break into a home in Oklahoma and start to, say, punch someone, they can kill you legally. In a wild Tulsa shooting, a store clerk killed two armed robbers who broke into his store guns blazing in January.

[Blind groper]

American gun law is weird!

Saying a murder is justified does not stop it being a murder. Any killing that is not needed, and needed on a life or death basis, is murder. Saying that it is not murder does not change that simple fact.

One of the big fallacies in Seth's arguments is his assumption that if a person did not use a gun, dire consequences would result. However, simple logic tells us this is wrong.

There are roughly 100 million gun owners in the USA, and roughly 300 million guns. This tells us that most gun owners own more than one gun, and in some cases, they may own many. No one needs, by any twisted definition of 'need', three or more guns. So I define any such twisted mind as being a gun nutter.

Gun nutters, as shown by the film maker Michael Moore, have even been known to take their guns to bed. They certainly indulge in fantasies about how they might use those guns. We have seen Seth write up some of his gun fantasies on this forum.

In places where gun nutters are few and far between (like my country), then using a gun in the way Seth describes above, is rare indeed. Yet the dire consequences for not using those guns is even rarer. So I conclude that the idea that guns must be used to avoid dire consequences is just a sick fantasy.

[Seth]

American gun law is weird!

Saying a murder is justified does not stop it being a murder.

Actually, it does exactly that because a killing of a human being is a "homicide" whereas a "murder" is an unlawful killing of a human being.

Any killing that is not needed,

Boy am I glad you don't get to decide such things.

and needed on a life or death basis, is murder.

And the police, who investigate such killings, say they weren't.

Saying that it is not murder does not change that simple fact.

Actually, you're wrong. If it's not murder, it's not murder, it's merely a homicide, which is the killing of a human being by another human being, and which may be justified, and therefore not a crime, or unjustified, and therefore "murder."

One of the big fallacies in Seth's arguments is his assumption that if a person did not use a gun, dire consequences would result. However, simple logic tells us this is wrong.

Investigation of the facts in each of these cases show that the homicides were lawful precisely because the legal requirements for the use of lethal self-defense were met.Therefore, you are wrong.

There are roughly 100 million gun owners in the USA, and roughly 300 million guns. This tells us that most gun owners own more than one gun, and in some cases, they may own many. No one needs, by any twisted definition of 'need', three or more guns. So I define any such twisted mind as being a gun nutter.

It's not a Bill of Needs, it's a Bill of Rights. Using your stupid logic nobody "needs" to own more than one of anything, from cars to CDs.

Gun nutters, as shown by the film maker Michael Moore, have even been known to take their guns to bed.

So what?

They certainly indulge in fantasies about how they might use those guns.

Do they? Well, we like to call that "tactical planning," which is a vital part of proper firearms training. One must necessarily ponder circumstances under which one might be required to use a gun for self defense in order to determine what the best plan for achieving a positive result is. Nothing at all wrong with that. The military spends billions upon billions of dollars teaching our soldiers how to do exactly that.

We have seen Seth write up some of his gun fantasies on this forum.

"Fantasy" is of course a deliberately mendacious and provocative term for what any rational person does with any object that might be dangerous, like one's automobile or one's food processor. Poor planning promotes piss poor performance.

In places where gun nutters are few and far between (like my country), then using a gun in the way Seth describes above, is rare indeed.

No shit Sherlock. If you don't have a gun you can't use it to protect your life.

Yet the dire consequences for not using those guns is even rarer.

Except for all those disarmed people who are victimized and murdered because hoplophobes like you disarm them.

So I conclude that the idea that guns must be used to avoid dire consequences is just a sick fantasy.

Strawman. Nobody said guns "must" be used, merely that they may be used if the circumstances call for it, as it did in the cases cited, none of which you are able to refute.

[Blind groper]

On homicide versus murder.

We could end in a semantics argument here, which is kinda pointless. So let me just say that killing another human when your own life is not on the line is not justifiable. American law is weird in that it seems to take the value of a human life very lightly, and permits killings which are not really necessary. Personally, I value human life more highly, and believe that taking another person's life is the worst of crimes (except taking more than one life), and can only be justified for the very strongest of reasons.

[Blind groper]

[quote="Seth"]







Except for all those disarmed people who are victimized and murdered because hoplophobes like you disarm them.



[quote]

The numbers tell a different story. Gun murders are way, way lower in countries that prevent the citizens running round with murder tools tucked into the back of their trousers.

[Collector1337]

The numbers tell a different story. Gun murders are way, way lower in countries that prevent the citizens running round with murder tools tucked into the back of their trousers.

And what about all the non gun murders?

[Blind groper]

Collector

The comparison between the gun loving USA and other wealthy western nations is black and white in terms of all murders.

My country has one fifth of the per capita total murder rate compared to the USA, and about one twenty fifth of the gun murder rate.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, but you're all Marxists. Better to die in a hail of bullets than be enslaved with your low crime statistics!

[JimC]

You can prise my statistics out of my cold, dead hands!


















(am I in danger of over using this meme?)

[Hermit]

Yes, but I guess there's nothing we can do about it until we figure out a way to prise your meme out of your cold, dead hands!

[JimC]

Yes, but I guess there's nothing we can do about it until we figure out a way to prise your meme out of your cold, dead hands!

Good luck with that!