Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Election.

[Seth]

Well you tell us. On one hand you lambast them for not paying taxes,

Where did I do that?

Why are you so incapable of following a debate? You said it only two or so post ago. And this was just the most recent time. You've got stuck in the greeks for not paying taxes for fucking ages.

..and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much...

Wow! What a fine example of mendaciously deceptive quote mining and deliberate misquoting. No wonder you got booted from RatSkep.

Here's what I actually said:

If the Greek government were not fatally corrupt and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much. They have an underground economy because Greek government is so notoriously corrupt and packed to the gills with useless, pointless regulations and sinecured positions that serve no useful purpose at all and do nothing but drain the economy for the benefit of lazy bureaucrats and government employees.

The obvious meaning is that the Greek government is "fatally corrupt and bloated", not that Greeks are "bloated" and therefore unwilling to pay taxes.

Didn't you learn how to parse a sentence?

[pErvinalia]

Well you tell us. On one hand you lambast them for not paying taxes,

Where did I do that?

Why are you so incapable of following a debate? You said it only two or so post ago. And this was just the most recent time. You've got stuck in the greeks for not paying taxes for fucking ages.

..and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much...

Wow! What a fine example of mendaciously deceptive quote mining and deliberate misquoting. No wonder you got booted from RatSkep.

Here's what I actually said:

If the Greek government were not fatally corrupt and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much. They have an underground economy because Greek government is so notoriously corrupt and packed to the gills with useless, pointless regulations and sinecured positions that serve no useful purpose at all and do nothing but drain the economy for the benefit of lazy bureaucrats and government employees.

The obvious meaning is that the Greek government is "fatally corrupt and bloated", not that Greeks are "bloated" and therefore unwilling to pay taxes.

Didn't you learn how to parse a sentence?

Ok, I accept I got that wrong. It would have helped if you put a comma in where it was grammatically needed.

What's incredible about this is that you are even denying that you have bagged the Greeks. You've done it repeatedly. Here's an example from the fucking post just before that one!:

Greece is a perfect example of the fundamental failure of Marxism. You have a nation that voted in even more Marxist Marxists because the people don't want to suck it up and pay for their mistakes

What "mistakes"? If they are all good libertarians like you are randomly trying to imply now, then what do they have to answer for??

(and seriously, I can just keep going back through your posts and picking these out. You can't seriously claim not to have lambasted the Greeks for not being good citizens).

[Seth]

Well you tell us. On one hand you lambast them for not paying taxes,

Where did I do that?

Why are you so incapable of following a debate? You said it only two or so post ago. And this was just the most recent time. You've got stuck in the greeks for not paying taxes for fucking ages.

..and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much...

Wow! What a fine example of mendaciously deceptive quote mining and deliberate misquoting. No wonder you got booted from RatSkep.

Here's what I actually said:

If the Greek government were not fatally corrupt and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much. They have an underground economy because Greek government is so notoriously corrupt and packed to the gills with useless, pointless regulations and sinecured positions that serve no useful purpose at all and do nothing but drain the economy for the benefit of lazy bureaucrats and government employees.

The obvious meaning is that the Greek government is "fatally corrupt and bloated", not that Greeks are "bloated" and therefore unwilling to pay taxes.

Didn't you learn how to parse a sentence?

Ok, I accept I got that wrong. It would have helped if you put a comma in where it was grammatically needed.

Yes, I agree, that would have been prudent.

What's incredible about this is that you are even denying that you have bagged the Greeks. You've done it repeatedly. Here's an example from the fucking post just before that one!:

Greece is a perfect example of the fundamental failure of Marxism. You have a nation that voted in even more Marxist Marxists because the people don't want to suck it up and pay for their mistakes

Well, it's true.

What "mistakes"?

Allowing politicians to drive them into bankruptcy.

If they are all good libertarians like you are randomly trying to imply now, then what do they have to answer for??

I didn't say they were "good libertarians," what I said was, "Not really. In reality one might say the Greeks are determined to remain free of oppressive government taxation to the extent that they flout their disobedience and dare the government to try to collect those unfair taxes. In that they are much like the Tea Party...the original one from Boston, and therefore to be admired for their dedication to liberty and justice. And evidently the Greek bureaucracy has no stomach for the kind of totalitarian, fascistic and brutal methods that would be required to make Greeks pay those taxes."

Of course not all Greeks subscribe to this method of resisting oppressive taxation. There are those Marxists and their useful idiots who want to tax the people so they can pay for the bloated bureaucracy and corruption that is notoriously epidemic and endemic in Greece.

[piscator]

So public employees are not part of the free enterprise system which is why they have no 1st Amendment rights?

Generally speaking, public employees cannot possiblly be part of the free enterprise system, since they are paid from taxes extorted from the payers, rather than paid from voluntary payments.

But government employees are paid, right? So Where do they spend their pay, Warren?

Doesn't matter where they spend it. How they got it is what's important.

Evidently, it's all that's important to you. But you're just trying to act like you've considered that government contractors and employees spend and save their pay too ... We're all pretty sure that your economic model has government paychecks and contracts as only negative integers, with zero economic benefit. They may be negative at the end of the day, but at much lower quantity, and by a far more elaborate calculus than you care to dwell on.

And who said the 1st Amendment right to assemble was based on economic models?

Nobody. No one is interfering with their right to assemble. They can assemble all they want. They can even elect representatives to negotiate for them with the agency they are employed by. They just can't be allowed to form a union, nor can they be permitted to strike, nor can they be permitted to interfere with the hiring and firing practices and policies of the agency, nor can they be permitted to negotiate the terms and conditions of their jobs.

I'm willing to grant that some point, public employee unions can undermine the will of the people who employ them, but there needs to be binding arbitration before significant disruption occurs. Arbitrators are judges, BTW, and they don't take a lot of guff during their proceedings, and the buck stops there. That's probably what you mean by, 'Government interference in Union negotiations', when arbitrators (government or private) are typically there based on a contract to rule on a contract. I can guarantee most civil employees are not striking to disrupt the function of the government when their union's asking for a 4% pay hike because that's what Congress just voted themselves.

Why are all my conceptions of you in business centered around you as a loudmouth Lester Maddox type running a labor-intensive nickle & dime chicken processing plant that's always in trouble with INS and the health inspectors?

[Seth]

I can guarantee most civil employees are not striking to disrupt the function of the government when their union's asking for a 4% pay hike because that's what Congress just voted themselves.

And why do they assume that they are entitled to a raise just because someone else got one?

Why are all my conceptions of you in business centered around you as a loudmouth Lester Maddox type running a labor-intensive nickle & dime chicken processing plant that's always in trouble with INS and the health inspectors?

Evidently because you're an idiot...

[Warren Dew]

What a fine example of mendaciously deceptive quote mining and deliberate misquoting. No wonder you got booted from RatSkep.

Non sequitur.

[Warren Dew]

It does sound like the same thing.

I'm guessing a sort of "kick the can down the road" type of deal, like the silly debt ceiling thing in the US, will happen for the short-term. Basically, I think this equates to the EU half blinking, and will probably eventually end up with it fully blinking. It seems to me that the Greeks are serious about this, and there's serious support in Europe for the Eurozone project. So the only way to break this impasse eventually will be to relax the austerity measures a bit. But then, short term politics in Germany might see it cutting off it's long term nose to spite it's face.

Looks like Greece isn't actually proposing to freeze its antiausterity policies - the press just got that wrong. The most Greece is willing to go with is a vague and virtually meaningless promise to maintain "fiscal balance". They just made exactly the same proposal as was rejected before, and Germany has signalled that it will be rejected again.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31532755

[piscator]

I can guarantee most civil employees are not striking to disrupt the function of the government when their union's asking for a 4% pay hike because that's what Congress just voted themselves.

And why do they assume that they are entitled to a raise just because someone else got one?

"Entitled" my ass. They'll get a raise because it's the least expensive alternative.
Same as you going to the gas station: Don't want to pay the new price for the same fuel? Tough shit.

Why are all my conceptions of you in business centered around you as a loudmouth Lester Maddox type running a labor-intensive nickle & dime chicken processing plant that's always in trouble with INS and the health inspectors?

Evidently because you're an idiot...

You're right. I'd have to be an idiot to think anyone would work for you for more than an hour or two.

[mistermack]

It's getting interesting.
The Germans said no to a proposal that other members were inclined to accept. Quite right, as the others were probably not in line to pay for it all.
The Germans are putting their foot down, and it's either take it or leave it for the Greeks.
You can't just vote yourself a loan. The people doing the lending have a right to say no thanks.
Or yes but.
If the Greeks don't like it, they can try to borrow from someone else. Good luck with that.
I think that there's a good chance that Greece is going to crash out. Either that, or do a humiliating climb-down.
I very much doubt if the Greeks have got rid of all the feather-bedded little scams that they were all used to. They've got a long way to go, they need to suffer, to get rid of all the abuses. And pay some tax.

[pErvinalia]

You need to suffer.

[Warren Dew]

The Germans said no to a proposal that other members were inclined to accept.

It's not clear that the other finance ministers had actually read it carefully, as the German did. Even then, they only said it was a good sign, not that they'd accept it, and it was only a few of them.

It will be interesting to see how SYRIZA handles things if they can't get others to pay for their proposed profligacy.

[Warren Dew]

And now, to follow up on the disagreement that didn't seem to be a disagreement, there's now an accord that's not an accord.

Greece, euro zone creditors reach accord on loan

... A Greek government official said "Greece has turned the page" and won a breathing space to negotiate a new deal.

European Union paymaster Germany, Greece's biggest creditor, had demanded "significant improvements" in reform commitments by Athens before it would accept an extension of euro zone funding.

The accord requires Greece to submit by Monday a letter to the Eurogroup listing all the policy measures it plans to take during the remainder of the bailout period, to ensure they comply with the conditions.

If the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF are satisfied after an initial view, euro zone member states will ratify the extension, where necessary through their parliaments.

Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan voiced caution about the prospects, telling reporters: "It's an important first step that we hope will lead to a successful second step on Monday night/Tuesday morning, but then of course there's a third step with ratifications in parliament."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/ ... O620150220

It will be interesting to see what's on Monday's letter given Tsipras is already unwinding their former compliance with the bailout conditions.

[Seth]

I can guarantee most civil employees are not striking to disrupt the function of the government when their union's asking for a 4% pay hike because that's what Congress just voted themselves.

And why do they assume that they are entitled to a raise just because someone else got one?

"Entitled" my ass. They'll get a raise because it's the least expensive alternative.

Perhaps, but my question (which you evaded) still remains.

Same as you going to the gas station: Don't want to pay the new price for the same fuel? Tough shit.

I can go to another gas station with a lower price. Union employees can go to a different employer that offers better pay.

[piscator]

I can guarantee most civil employees are not striking to disrupt the function of the government when their union's asking for a 4% pay hike because that's what Congress just voted themselves.

And why do they assume that they are entitled to a raise just because someone else got one?

"Entitled" my ass. They'll get a raise because it's the least expensive alternative.

Perhaps, but my question (which you evaded) still remains.

Not my problem, or yours. The last fair deal's leaving town, on that Gulfport Island Road. I suggest you take it, or weigh the costs of reinventing your wheel.

Same as you going to the gas station: Don't want to pay the new price for the same fuel? Tough shit.

I can go to another gas station with a lower price. Union employees can go to a different employer that offers better pay.

If it equates so effortlessly, why don't you have a job? (Depreciating your inherited auto in exchange for cash flow doesn't really count).

[Seth]

I can guarantee most civil employees are not striking to disrupt the function of the government when their union's asking for a 4% pay hike because that's what Congress just voted themselves.

And why do they assume that they are entitled to a raise just because someone else got one?

"Entitled" my ass. They'll get a raise because it's the least expensive alternative.

Perhaps, but my question (which you evaded) still remains.

Not my problem, or yours. The last fair deal's leaving town, on that Gulfport Island Road. I suggest you take it, or weigh the costs of reinventing your wheel.

Wisconsin Lawmakers Strike At The Heart Of Unions
4:48 PM 02/20/2015



Connor D. Wolf
Contributor

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Wisconsin lawmakers on Friday detailed a plan to call an Extraordinary Legislative Session next week to pass a right-to-work bill.

The policy, which has passed in 24 states, outlaws forced unionization as a condition of employment. Specifically, it means workers cannot be required to pay union dues or become a member in order to have a job. Advocates argue it should be the worker’s choice to join a union, while opponents claim right-to-work hurts workers because it allows employers to take too much advantage.

“We’re putting the finishing touches on the bill,” Republican Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald declared to reporters during a press conference.

“It’s a fairly simple bill,” Fitzgerald went onto say. “We have an agreement between the Senate and Assembly of what it should look like.”

The bill will also have no impact on current labor contracts, according to Fitzgerald.

“On Monday morning at 9:00am, a ballot will be introduced for an Extraordinary Session to introduce right-to-work legislation,” Fitzgerald noted.

Fitzgerald and assembly leaders agreed that an Extraordinary Legislative Session was the best way to bring the bill forward. Under such a session, the governor is not required to be present.

The bill will hit the senate floor Wednesday for debate. After the debate, if it’s approved by the Senate, the bill will go to the State Assembly. If both the Assembly and Senate approve, it will move to Gov. Scott Walker’s desk to be signed. Fitzgerald is confident they have enough votes in both chambers to pass the bill.

“My experience as leader is if you have the votes, you go to the floor,” Fitzgerald noted. “You don’t wait around.”

Republican State Rep. Chris Kapenga is also optimistic that the bill will end up with Walker’s signature.

“It’s about worker freedom,” Kapenga tells The Daily Caller News Foundation. “We know that individual liberty is the foundation of our country.”

Kapenga also refuted claims that right-to-work legislation is nothing more than an attempt to bust unions. Kapenga argues, “The legislation does not say you can’t be in a union.”

Kapenga recalls his first experience with forced unionization. When he was 19, working as an electric contractor, he noticed some unknown deduction from his paycheck. When he asked about it he was told if he wanted a job, he had to give part of his paycheck to his union. Kapenga notes that the experience never sat well with him.

There are also the economic benefits. Kapenga argues that right-to-work states often times have more job opportunities and income mobility which helps lower income workers earn more.

Though he is currently taking a hands-off approach to focus on other policies like education, Walker became a target for many national unions in his first term when he worked with the state’s Republican legislature to pass a labor reform initiative, known as Act 10. The act significantly changed the collective bargaining process for most public employees within the state. Since Act 10, union reform and the possibility of a full blown right-to-work law has captured much of the political dialogue in the state.

I fart on your union propaganda.

If it equates so effortlessly, why don't you have a job? (Depreciating your inherited auto in exchange for cash flow doesn't really count).

I do have a job. A great one where I set my own hours and working conditions and determine how to satisfy my client's needs and where I'm free to negotiate with my other client about compensation.

Taxi unions fucking hate people like me to which I say