
Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Election.
- pErvinalia
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
Taxes are voluntary anyway. You can choose not to pay them and go and live in Somalia. 

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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
Greece is so fucked right now. The rest of the EU isn't going to buy in to the Marxists demands for debt forgiveness, nor should it.rEvolutionist wrote:![]()
In the news this morning is that Greece has rejected the latest extortion attempt from Europe. This is coming to a crunch by the end of this week / start of next week. I wonder who will blink first. Enthralling battle of ideas and morals taking place right now.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
Doesn't matter where they spend it. How they got it is what's important.piscator wrote:But government employees are paid, right? So Where do they spend their pay, Warren?Warren Dew wrote:Generally speaking, public employees cannot possiblly be part of the free enterprise system, since they are paid from taxes extorted from the payers, rather than paid from voluntary payments.piscator wrote:So public employees are not part of the free enterprise system which is why they have no 1st Amendment rights?
Nobody. No one is interfering with their right to assemble. They can assemble all they want. They can even elect representatives to negotiate for them with the agency they are employed by. They just can't be allowed to form a union, nor can they be permitted to strike, nor can they be permitted to interfere with the hiring and firing practices and policies of the agency, nor can they be permitted to negotiate the terms and conditions of their jobs.And who said the 1st Amendment right to assemble was based on economic models?
As public employees they work for the People, and they work at the pleasure of the people. They have no "right" to have or keep a job if the representatives of the People don't want them to have or keep that job. Public service is not a right, it's a privilege and a duty and the People, who pay for that service, have every right to hire and fire at will, including for political reasons. If public servants don't like the conditions of employment that prevent them from unionizing they don't have to take public employment.
"Civil Service" regulations didn't exist before Woodrow Wilson's regime. Being the father of modern Progressivism, Wilson instituted the civil service concept and regulations for federal employees because his dream was of creating a Progressive government run by "expert" bureaucrats who could never be fired. It was his way of infesting the federal government with Progressive-minded employees who were immune from being fired by a new non-Progressive administration. This was intended to ensure, and has ensured, that anyone hired to work for the federal government could be politically vetted and given a sinecure that made it difficult or impossible to get rid of them even if their outright insubordination to a new administration caused the new administration's programs to be wasteful and ineffective.
The excuse used to pass the civil service laws was that "patronage" was a bad thing because it caused "good" employees to lose their jobs because they were not politically aligned with the current administration. But the thing about politics is that when you win the election (as Obama says) you get to make the policies, and in order to make those policies effective you need to be able to employ people whose will carry out your policies, and you need to be able to fire those who will not.
When the People elect and administration they grant the authority for the administration to make their policies work. To have a "professional" class of bureaucrats who cannot be removed and replaced frustrates the will of the People for the political direction of their government.
And the People are entitled by right to the political administration that they want...and they should get it, good and hard. That way all the blame for errors, fraud or other mistakes can be laid directly at the feet of the elected officials, just as their successes can be, and no one can complain that their intentions were frustrated by an uncooperative bureaucracy.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- pErvinalia
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It's really a battle concerning the whole European project. If the desire for a unified Europe is bigger than the desire to inflict pain on the Greeks, then they will forgive the debt to some extent. If it's not bigger, then they will left Greece go.Seth wrote:Greece is so fucked right now. The rest of the EU isn't going to buy in to the Marxists demands for debt forgiveness, nor should it.rEvolutionist wrote:![]()
In the news this morning is that Greece has rejected the latest extortion attempt from Europe. This is coming to a crunch by the end of this week / start of next week. I wonder who will blink first. Enthralling battle of ideas and morals taking place right now.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
I think you're probably right that it's a test of the EU, and I suspect the EU is going to fail. There are too many pauper states and not enough producers.rEvolutionist wrote:I wouldn't be so sure about that. It's really a battle concerning the whole European project. If the desire for a unified Europe is bigger than the desire to inflict pain on the Greeks, then they will forgive the debt to some extent. If it's not bigger, then they will left Greece go.Seth wrote:Greece is so fucked right now. The rest of the EU isn't going to buy in to the Marxists demands for debt forgiveness, nor should it.rEvolutionist wrote:![]()
In the news this morning is that Greece has rejected the latest extortion attempt from Europe. This is coming to a crunch by the end of this week / start of next week. I wonder who will blink first. Enthralling battle of ideas and morals taking place right now.
Greece is a perfect example of the fundamental failure of Marxism. You have a nation that voted in even more Marxist Marxists because the people don't want to suck it up and pay for their mistakes and they expect the government to bail them out. And since the Greek government is bankrupt, they expect the rest of the EU to bail them out because they have "need" so they expect everyone else to give them according to their "ability."
What I think they will find out is that nobody else gives a shit about them and have no interest in redistributing their wealth to a country that will just blow it all on giveaways to the seething proletarian masses to keep them from hanging the Marxist elite and Greece itself will remain a welfare state basically forever.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- JimC
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
I think Greece is much more an example of the perils of a country ignoring the rule of law. If routine corruption and systematic failure to pay tax had been stamped on hard in the past, its financial position now would be far less dire than it is...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
If the Greek government were not fatally corrupt and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much. They have an underground economy because Greek government is so notoriously corrupt and packed to the gills with useless, pointless regulations and sinecured positions that serve no useful purpose at all and do nothing but drain the economy for the benefit of lazy bureaucrats and government employees.JimC wrote:I think Greece is much more an example of the perils of a country ignoring the rule of law. If routine corruption and systematic failure to pay tax had been stamped on hard in the past, its financial position now would be far less dire than it is...
If Greece desires to recover, then the first "austerity measure" it has to engage in is lining useless government bureaucrats and functionaries up against a wall somewhere and shooting them, because what's bankrupting the Greek government is the Greek government.
Greece is a perfect example of what happens when government becomes bloated, wasteful, corrupt and inefficient. People simply go around government and continue to do what they must to survive. The classic method that you suggest is where Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao come from.
As the government grows and costs more and more without returning anything to the economy except more corruption and waste, in order to collect the taxes necessary to keep the legions of bureaucrats paid, the government must become more and more fascistic and authoritarian as taxpayers refuse to be bilked for no good reason.
Greece could well go the way of Stalin or Mao with the Marxists in charge and we will see the usual result, which is people being killed wholesale by the government for refusing to "cooperate" with the Marxist plans. The question is whether or not the Greek military will support the Marxists or the people.
Given Greece's history, I rather doubt the military will be willing to murder the populace just so the Marxist bureaucrats in office now can keep getting their perks and paychecks. But it's certainly possible.
Most likely is that there will be a military coup that will depose the leftists and institute a military dictatorship which will depose the legions of useless bureaucrats and eliminate the libraries of pointless and expensive laws and regulations that are quite literally strangling economic diversity and success in Greece.
And that would not necessarily be a bad thing, just as Egypt's military refused to kill the citizenry, whom they serve, on the orders of the dictator of the moment. It's interesting that Egypt's military leaders were trained and supplied by the United States and have consistently acknowledged their duty to serve the interests of the people of Egypt rather than the interests of the ruling cabal. Greece needs exactly the same sort of protection for it's citizens...and to shed the dead weight of useless bureaucracy and bureaucrats who are destroying the economy to feather their own nests.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- JimC
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
You have missed the main point; most western countries, even those with a tinge of socialism about them, are much stricter at upholding the rule of law than Greece has been in the past. Any corruption amongst bureaucrats is relatively rare, not systemic, and severely punished when detected, and tax authorities have the means to ensure that the majority pay the taxes required. This difference alone is the key; no need for an anti-marxist rant whatsoever...
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- pErvinalia
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
There's always a need for an anti-Marxist rant! 

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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
I'm sure they are. Of course Hitler was just "upholding the rule of law" when he murdered 12 million people in his camps. So fuck the "rule of law" if the law is an unjust one, as many laws are. One of the best ways to know if a law is unjust is if the majority of people living under it either object to it or simply ignore it. A law that is not voluntarily obeyed by the majority of people is no law at all, it's despotism.JimC wrote:You have missed the main point; most western countries, even those with a tinge of socialism about them, are much stricter at upholding the rule of law than Greece has been in the past.
And that is a complete and utter boatload of horse crap. You show me a government bureaucrat and I'll show you a corrupt individual. It's a job requirement you see.Any corruption amongst bureaucrats is relatively rare, not systemic, and severely punished when detected,
Yes, jackbooted thugs with machine guns are intimidating. That's why we have machine guns (and other guns) too, so when the jackbooted thugs get out of control we can take back control.and tax authorities have the means to ensure that the majority pay the taxes required.
Not really. In reality one might say the Greeks are determined to remain free of oppressive government taxation to the extent that they flout their disobedience and dare the government to try to collect those unfair taxes. In that they are much like the Tea Party...the original one from Boston, and therefore to be admired for their dedication to liberty and justice. And evidently the Greek bureaucracy has no stomach for the kind of totalitarian, fascistic and brutal methods that would be required to make Greeks pay those taxes.This difference alone is the key; no need for an anti-marxist rant whatsoever...
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
Perhaps they are all libertarians and consider taxation "theft"..Seth wrote:If the Greek government were not fatally corrupt and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much.JimC wrote:I think Greece is much more an example of the perils of a country ignoring the rule of law. If routine corruption and systematic failure to pay tax had been stamped on hard in the past, its financial position now would be far less dire than it is...

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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
Well, certainly a large number of them believe exactly that, ergo the underground non-taxpaying economy. When the majority of the citizenry create an underground economy to evade taxation, that means that the taxation being imposed is unacceptable to the citizenry and needs to be stopped. That, after all, is the "democratic way" isn't it? Majority rules?rEvolutionist wrote:Perhaps they are all libertarians and consider taxation "theft"..Seth wrote:If the Greek government were not fatally corrupt and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much.JimC wrote:I think Greece is much more an example of the perils of a country ignoring the rule of law. If routine corruption and systematic failure to pay tax had been stamped on hard in the past, its financial position now would be far less dire than it is...
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- pErvinalia
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
Well you tell us. On one hand you lambast them for not paying taxes, yet on the other hand you lambast the government for setting too high a tax rate. Well which is it??
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
Where did I do that?rEvolutionist wrote:Well you tell us. On one hand you lambast them for not paying taxes,
Depends on the specific tax.yet on the other hand you lambast the government for setting too high a tax rate. Well which is it??
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- pErvinalia
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Re: Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Electio
Why are you so incapable of following a debate? You said it only two or so post ago. And this was just the most recent time. You've got stuck in the greeks for not paying taxes for fucking ages.Seth wrote:Where did I do that?rEvolutionist wrote:Well you tell us. On one hand you lambast them for not paying taxes,

..and bloated Greeks would not object to paying taxes nearly as much...
More likely it depends on which way the wind is blowing against your argument, and what goalpost shift you have to perform to try and wriggle out of your inconsistencies.Depends on the specific tax.yet on the other hand you lambast the government for setting too high a tax rate. Well which is it??
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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