This didn't happen in Australia...not.

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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by JimC » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:13 pm

Seth, you've missed the main point - in Oz, we don't give a fuck what American nutters think about the way we choose to run our own country...
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:06 am

JimC wrote:Seth, you've missed the main point - in Oz, we don't give a fuck what American nutters think about the way we choose to run our own country...
But I give a fuck about how you run your country because there are people there who are being harmed by your hypocritical and arrogant stance. You know you're wrong and I'm right, which is why you've taken to simply saying "it's none of your business."

Well, it is my business. The lives of innocent people harmed and lost to criminals because people like you have disarmed them are important to me, even if they are of no importance to you, and I choose to call you on your hypocrisy and arrogance because not doing so tacitly approves of your asinine stance.

Besides, hoplophobe fucks all over the world try to influence our laws, so I've every right to challenge your claims.
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"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:41 am

Seth wrote:
JimC wrote:Seth, you've missed the main point - in Oz, we don't give a fuck what American nutters think about the way we choose to run our own country...
But I give a fuck about how you run your country because there are people there who are being harmed by your hypocritical and arrogant stance.
You don't give a fuck about generic "people". You only care about rights and how they affect you.
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by Collector1337 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:21 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
JimC wrote:Seth, you've missed the main point - in Oz, we don't give a fuck what American nutters think about the way we choose to run our own country...
But I give a fuck about how you run your country because there are people there who are being harmed by your hypocritical and arrogant stance.
You don't give a fuck about generic "people". You only care about rights and how they affect you.
Well, these "generic people" do in fact exist. Use your imagination. Try thinking. Every time you hear on the news about a rape or a murder or an attack, or whatever. Or even just yourself if your unarmed. And think how if only they could have done something about it. Or what if something happened to me, since it is possible. And I couldn't do shit about it. But, oh wait, there is. If only you, or "generic people" had some fucking competency. Not great, or even good... just competent. You, or "generic people" who could be any victim you hear about on the news, may have been able to do something to stop something horrific from happening, despite size or toughness, from even multiple attackers. But, no. Let's take that away from people because you're scared. See, when people can be armed, it makes it more difficult for criminals and this makes a better society for it. Instead of criminals being able to know they don't have to ever worry about an armed victim, they instead, DO have to worry about an armed victim. In crime, there are multiple forms of risk. There's the risk of getting caught. And then there's the risk of being killed on the spot. What's a bigger deterrent? I would much rather live in a society, and the society bred with this risk for criminals embedded in it, than being helpless. Allowing yourself to be so helpless when tools exist to not be so helpless is just stupidity. You are breeding an idiotic society by not letting people have to ability to arm themselves, and these "generic people" who are victimized, these individuals, do matter. Not this collectivist, individuals must sacrifice their own personal safety for the alleged good of society, bullshit.
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:59 am

That's nice. But as I said, Seth doesn't give a fuck about generic "people".
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:31 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
JimC wrote:Seth, you've missed the main point - in Oz, we don't give a fuck what American nutters think about the way we choose to run our own country...
But I give a fuck about how you run your country because there are people there who are being harmed by your hypocritical and arrogant stance.
You don't give a fuck about generic "people". You only care about rights and how they affect you.
No, I care about how the infringement and denial of basic human rights affects every single person on the planet. It's you who doesn't give a fuck if your neighbor is raped and murdered because she didn't have a gun so long as you don't have to worry about anybody in your vicinity having a gun, which is an idiotic thing to think in the first place since anybody you come into contact with could be armed and you wouldn't even know it till they stick it in your ear.
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"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by JimC » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:48 am

Your paranoia may be appropriate in the violent USA, but is laughable when applied to the civilised world.
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:52 am

JimC wrote:Your paranoia may be appropriate in the violent USA, but is laughable when applied to the civilised world.
Said the guy from the country where we just saw carjackers shooting at police with a handgun... :blah:
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by JimC » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:59 am

Seth wrote:
JimC wrote:Your paranoia may be appropriate in the violent USA, but is laughable when applied to the civilised world.
Said the guy from the country where we just saw carjackers shooting at police with a handgun... :blah:
So, one particular instance gives you a statistically accurate picture of a whole country?

Have we ever said that Oz is a zero-violence realm?
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by rainbow » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:33 am

JimC wrote:
Seth wrote:
JimC wrote:Your paranoia may be appropriate in the violent USA, but is laughable when applied to the civilised world.
Said the guy from the country where we just saw carjackers shooting at police with a handgun... :blah:
So, one particular instance gives you a statistically accurate picture of a whole country?

Have we ever said that Oz is a zero-violence realm?
OZ has a quarter of the murder and violent crime rate of the US.http://www.nationmaster.com/country-inf ... ates/Crime

Seth would like you to share in his experience, and this is the thanks he gets. :lay:
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by Hermit » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:28 am

JimC wrote:
Seth wrote:
JimC wrote:Your paranoia may be appropriate in the violent USA, but is laughable when applied to the civilised world.
Said the guy from the country where we just saw carjackers shooting at police with a handgun... :blah:
So, one particular instance gives you a statistically accurate picture of a whole country?
At least you can't accuse Seth of being inconsistent. Every time someone mentions an instance of a toddler accidentally shooting their mother, brother or whoever happens to be nearby, he says "Yabbut that is insignificant in comparison to the millions toddlers who never ever do that." And every time he finds a rare anecdote that suits his prejudice he goes: "See? tole ya I wuz rite all along!"
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by piscator » Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:17 am

Congratulations Hermit! You now owe the State of Alaska ~$12!

See, a guy neither of us know got pulled over in Wasilla, and racked up a bunch of fines when he got a little pissy with the cops (he was in a bad mood) after being pulled over for a minor traffic stop. So now he has to pay $600 in fines, and 120 other random people each have to pay $11.67.
You may think you have better uses for that $11 2/3 dollars and may try to argue that you are in no way responsible and moreover there's an infinitesimally small chance that you'll ever even visit Alaska, but we all have to pay when an individual knucklehead misbehaves. Just like boot camp. We're all better citizens as a consequence.

Make cheque payable to:
State of Alaska
Juneau, Ak 99801
U.S.A.

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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by Hermit » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:03 pm

You are trying to make a point there, Piscator, aren't you? I'm sure of it.

If you can work out what it might be, get back to me.
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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:08 pm

JimC wrote:
Seth wrote:
JimC wrote:Your paranoia may be appropriate in the violent USA, but is laughable when applied to the civilised world.
Said the guy from the country where we just saw carjackers shooting at police with a handgun... :blah:
So, one particular instance gives you a statistically accurate picture of a whole country?

Have we ever said that Oz is a zero-violence realm?
Nope, and that's why you're a hypocrite. Unless you have a zero-violent-crime society each and every individual in your country has a fundamental human right to be armed for effective self defense against whatever crime might happen to them.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: This didn't happen in Australia...not.

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:15 pm

Hermit wrote:
JimC wrote:
Seth wrote:
JimC wrote:Your paranoia may be appropriate in the violent USA, but is laughable when applied to the civilised world.
Said the guy from the country where we just saw carjackers shooting at police with a handgun... :blah:
So, one particular instance gives you a statistically accurate picture of a whole country?
At least you can't accuse Seth of being inconsistent. Every time someone mentions an instance of a toddler accidentally shooting their mother, brother or whoever happens to be nearby, he says "Yabbut that is insignificant in comparison to the millions toddlers who never ever do that." And every time he finds a rare anecdote that suits his prejudice he goes: "See? tole ya I wuz rite all along!"
That's because it's mixing apples and oranges to say that an accidental (negligent) shooting of a toddler, or by a toddler, is any sort of justification for disarming anyone but the idiot who let the toddler get the gun.

You still refuse to understand the basic principle involved: Each and every individual on the planet has a fundamental human right to life, and therefore a fundamental human right to necessary tools of effective self-defense. In order for anyone to forfeit that right, the individual him or herself must do something that shows that the individual cannot be trusted to possess such arms and constitutes a danger to the public by being armed.

All of you guys operate from the presumption that nobody can be trusted to own guns and use them appropriately and safely, and that "anecdotes" of irresponsible gun use support the argument that because some tiny fraction of law-abiding people act irresponsibly, all persons must have their fundamental rights infringed so as to theoretically prevent any such irresponsibility in the future.

Anyone can see that this is a ridiculous and unsupportable argument. People do stupid, dangerous and harmful things. They do them with all sorts of objects, from five-gallon buckets to aluminum ladders to automobiles. But ONLY in the case of guns does anyone suggest flatly banning an entire class of objects because some candidates for the Darwin Awards do something stupid.

This is not evidence of reason or logic, it's evidence of hoplophobia, irrationality and unreason.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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