Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Election.

[JimC]

The union rep is, in effect, employed to represent me, and protect me in any dispute with my employers. He or she gives a shit because it's their job to give a shit, just like if I employed a lawyer.

[piscator]

Seth has never been in a labor union. He just thinks they are unfair to companies because of some shit someone told him back when he was a kid.

[pErvinalia]

He's basically clueless. Not that anyone thought otherwise.

[Seth]

The union rep is, in effect, employed to represent me, and protect me in any dispute with my employers. He or she gives a shit because it's their job to give a shit, just like if I employed a lawyer.

Boy, are you naive. The only reason a union goon would stand up for you is because firing your incompetent ass would decrease the power of the union to keep incompetents at work. They don't give a damn about you except as a tool for their agenda of keeping employers on the hook.

Police and teachers unions are the most notoriously corrupt and self-serving institutions out there. Being public employee unions, which should NEVER be allowed, ever, it is in their best interests to keep incompetents at work by coercion and corrupt tactics because it keeps the incompetent paying union dues and it defends the power of the union to maintain closed shops and their power over the employer.

Anybody who knows anything about, for example, the New York City teacher's unions knows that they have an entire building dedicated to "rubber rooms" where pedophile teachers, incompetents and criminals are sent to get them out of the classroom while still forcing the public to pay their salaries.

Their job is to give a shit about the union, not you. If you benefit, it's purely happenstance and good fortune for you, but it has nothing to do with protecting you.

[Seth]

Seth has never been in a labor union. He just thinks they are unfair to companies because of some shit someone told him back when he was a kid.

Actually this is not true. I was in a union when I was a cop. Not because I wanted to be, but because I was forced to be, and the union did jack and shit for me, took money out of my paycheck before I even saw it, and spent it on political lobbying that was completely opposed to everything I believed politically.

[piscator]

Seth has never been in a labor union. He just thinks they are unfair to companies because of some shit someone told him back when he was a kid.

Actually this is not true. I was in a union when I was a cop. Not because I wanted to be, but because I was forced to be, and the union did jack and shit for me, took money out of my paycheck before I even saw it, and spent it on political lobbying that was completely opposed to everything I believed politically.

Bullshit. Cop unions add $$ to cop paychecks before the cop ever sees it, "Lobby" (negotiate) for more free bullets and paid shooting practice, nice insurance and retirement packages, and always more paid time off. Moreover, whenever some cop beats some handcuffed guy to death on camera, or rapes some schoolgirl in his patrol car, the cop unions are out there defending his actions, so if the union didn't defend you at your administrative hearings, they must have considered it too cut/dried to waste member dues.

[Seth]

Seth has never been in a labor union. He just thinks they are unfair to companies because of some shit someone told him back when he was a kid.

Actually this is not true. I was in a union when I was a cop. Not because I wanted to be, but because I was forced to be, and the union did jack and shit for me, took money out of my paycheck before I even saw it, and spent it on political lobbying that was completely opposed to everything I believed politically.

Bullshit. Cop unions add $$ to cop paychecks before the cop ever sees it,

Maybe, maybe not. Didn't help me a bit. I paid union dues and got jack and shit from the union. My paycheck was pretty much the same as those of non-union departments in the area.

"Lobby" (negotiate) for more free bullets and paid shooting practice,

I got 50 rounds every six months to qualify with. Practice ammo was on me, and I spent thousands of dollars on tens of thousands of rounds of ammo with which I practiced just about every week when I was working, because I wanted to survive a shooting incident. I always shot at least 98% at every qualification, and very often 100%.

Union did jack and shit for me.

nice insurance and retirement packages,

Insurance was provided by the state and I opted out of the state-sponsored PERA because it, like every other pension plan, was a load of crap that wouldn't be there when I retired anyway. Union didn't negotiate any of that, it was all set up by the state legislature.

and always more paid time off.

Union did jack and shit for me.

Moreover, whenever some cop beats some handcuffed guy to death on camera, or rapes some schoolgirl in his patrol car, the cop unions are out there defending his actions, so if the union didn't defend you at your administrative hearings, they must have considered it too cut/dried to waste member dues.

I had one "administrative hearing" that involved the Chief of Police, myself, and two FBI agents who came to ask questions about why a guy I arrested had six or eight lumps on his head when he arrived at the jail. I held up my bandaged hand and said "I tapped him gently on the head so he would quit trying to bite off my thumb." The two agents looked at one another, stood up and said "Thank you, that's all we need." As they left, one of them said quietly to me "I'd have shot the guy in the head." And if I had, I'd have been legally justified in doing so.

There was no union rep there, nor did I ever hear from or see a union rep, ever. Not once. In my whole career. I just paid dues and got jack and shit from the union.

[JimC]

That's your personal experience.

Mine is completely different. Stop trying to damn the whole union movement from one person's experience.

[pErvinalia]

Union reps in Australia work at the same company as you do. They don't get paid to be a union rep. As usual, Seth, you know Jack shit about the world outside your own experience.

[piscator]

That's your personal experience.

Mine is completely different. Stop trying to damn the whole union movement from one person's experience.

He's probably making it up anyway.

[Hermit]

Oops. Wrong thread.

[Seth]

That's your personal experience.

Mine is completely different. Stop trying to damn the whole union movement from one person's experience.

Why not? You guys damn the whole law-abiding gun-owning public, and just about anybody else you don't like, based on one person's experience.

I actually have nothing against unions so long as a) membership is completely voluntary and no coercion of any kind takes place to induce people to join; b) union dues are never used for political lobbying of any kind; c) they are not public employees; and d) most importantly, government has absolutely nothing whatever to do with any aspect of negotiations between unions and employers. And I mean nothing whatever. Government can neither advance nor inhibit either unions or employers, all such activities are strictly civil contract matters between unions and employers.

Unfortunately that's not the way unions work here. Here, unions have a huge advantage over employers because they have the government on their side, and the government, through the NLRB among other agencies, stacks the deck against employers all the time.

So, unions have outlived their usefulness and are a detriment to society and the economy because they have become corrupt and no longer serve the needs or interests of the members.

If it's different there, that's great, but I seriously doubt it is.

[JimC]

That's your personal experience.

Mine is completely different. Stop trying to damn the whole union movement from one person's experience.

Why not? You guys damn the whole law-abiding gun-owning public, and just about anybody else you don't like, based on one person's experience.

I actually have nothing against unions so long as a) membership is completely voluntary and no coercion of any kind takes place to induce people to join; b) union dues are never used for political lobbying of any kind; c) they are not public employees; and d) most importantly, government has absolutely nothing whatever to do with any aspect of negotiations between unions and employers. And I mean nothing whatever. Government can neither advance nor inhibit either unions or employers, all such activities are strictly civil contract matters between unions and employers.

Unfortunately that's not the way unions work here. Here, unions have a huge advantage over employers because they have the government on their side, and the government, through the NLRB among other agencies, stacks the deck against employers all the time.

So, unions have outlived their usefulness and are a detriment to society and the economy because they have become corrupt and no longer serve the needs or interests of the members.

If it's different there, that's great, but I seriously doubt it is.

The first 3 are true of my teacher's union (for independent schools). The 4th point is more general. There's no direct government involvement here, but there is an independent arbitration process, supported but not run by government if negotiations break down between union and employer.

Some other unions (for example in the building industry) can be a little dodgy, with a certain amount of corruption and bullying, but that only puts them on the same level of most of the venal large building companies here.

[pErvinalia]

@Seth... Point b)... Why do you hate free speech?!!

[Seth]

@Seth... Point b)... Why do you hate free speech?!!

I don't. But unions use member money to lobby politically for things that the union member may or may not support. Therefore, to protect the free speech rights of union members (many of whom are there under compulsion), unions must be forbidden from misusing individual member funds to lobby for things not specifically approved by the individual union member.

Now, if members want to have a check-off list of political objectives for union lobbying and the unions ensure that member dues are used only for those approved political lobbying purposes, I'm fine with that.

But you cannot force me to contribute to a union fund and then legitimately use my money to expound union political positions that I do not agree with. That's a violation of my civil rights.