Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Election.

[Seth]

Tough luck, employers and Seth - unions ain't going anywhere, and will always be around to defend the working man from the oppression of employers with the ethical standards of rabid ferrets.

Which is pretty well all of them...

Actually unions are fading away. As I recall union membership is down to less than 15% of the workforce, down from 40% during the union heyday.

Unions are so desperate that they are trying to change the law to allow (even more) coercive tactics to force people into unions when they don't want to be in them.

[Seth]

The NLRB? So you want to blame the government when a company raises wages to avert a strike?

The NLRB is comprised of union goons who routinely rule against employers and are heavily and obviously biased towards unions. It's been packed by the Progressives that way for decades. In no way is the NLRB a neutral or objective ruling authority, and it shouldn't exist in the first place.

[Seth]

And this is the job of unemployed people to do??

The job market is just like any other market. You advertise your skill set and negotiate a price for using it. Others try to do the same. Supply and demand. In today's legal climate, if I were starving and saw an illegal working in a job I could do as well or better, I'd go to the employer and negotiate with him to take that job by convincing him that it's cheaper to hire me, and he'll get better service, than it is to pay the penalties for hiring an illegal alien. The illegal can go back to his own country and do the same thing there.

Or, in Libertarian parlance, I'd offer my superior skill set for a lower price than what he's paying someone else (anyone else) and work to "sell" myself as a better employee. That's how free markets work.

A race to the bottom. A libbos wet dream! Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Why would you think you deserve to be paid more than your skill set is worth? And why would you think that your inferior skill set should be favored over someone else's superior skill set?

You want a better job, get a better skill set. Otherwise you get nothing, which is what you're entitled to. Root, hog, or die.

As usual, you are wrong. You are entitled to a minimum wage as an employee.

And you're still wrong about there being more job vacancies than unemployed people.

What's it like to be consistently wrong?

Dunno, you're the expert in being consistently wrong, so you tell me.

[pErvinalia]

All employers dream of setting their workers to compete ferociously for their jobs.

Quite the opposite, in the U.S. these days. Large employers are currently working to expand employment immigration plans that work like indentured servitude to prevent the workers from competing. They know that wages would go up in the current environment if there were a free labor market.

Using illegal immigrants is even better, since the employer can get them jailed if they try to change jobs.

Luckily, unions ensure that this is only a pipe dream, and that by acting together, workers can ensure that the monied end of town isn't the only one that can flex its muscles...

You're about 60 years out of date with regard to the U.S. Even in Australia, only about 17% of workers are unionized.

In Australia the unions negotiate deals for the whole workforce. Must be because we are Marxists, or something.

[JimC]

Teaching is fairly heavily unionized here. Of course, all teachers are Marxists at heart...

[Seth]

All employers dream of setting their workers to compete ferociously for their jobs.

Quite the opposite, in the U.S. these days. Large employers are currently working to expand employment immigration plans that work like indentured servitude to prevent the workers from competing. They know that wages would go up in the current environment if there were a free labor market.

Using illegal immigrants is even better, since the employer can get them jailed if they try to change jobs.

Luckily, unions ensure that this is only a pipe dream, and that by acting together, workers can ensure that the monied end of town isn't the only one that can flex its muscles...

You're about 60 years out of date with regard to the U.S. Even in Australia, only about 17% of workers are unionized.

In Australia the unions negotiate deals for the whole workforce. Must be because we are Marxists, or something.

Of course because you are Marxists.

Why should I allow you (the union) to negotiate my compensation package with an employer? You (the union) hardly have my interests at the top of your list. You (the union) have at the top of your list, forever and always, maintaining the payment of union dues by the "members," and using a small part of those funds to influence politics so that everybody who works has to pay union dues, so that you (the union bosses) can skim off the top and live opulent lifestyles at the expense of the union "members", many of whom do not want to be in a union and do not support the union political agenda that they are being forced to pay for.

[Seth]

Teaching is fairly heavily unionized here. Of course, all teachers are Marxists at heart...

Most of them are just Marxist useful idiots.

[JimC]

Well, you got one part right.

I am extremely useful.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah you are right, Seth. Unions have never done anything for workers.

[Seth]

Yeah you are right, Seth. Unions have never done anything for workers.

I didn't say that. They served their purpose in the early years of the Industrial Revolution when labor law and employee safety was not overseen by the government. That is no longer the case. Labor unions don't look out for worker health and safety any more, OSHA does. Labor unions look after labor unions and the income of labor unions from union "members." And that's all they do.

[pErvinalia]

Not in Australia. They are the ones holding back the neoliberal tide to reduce wages and working conditions. Without unions we would be truly rooted here in Oz.

[rainbow]

Yeah you are right, Seth. Unions have never done anything for workers.

I didn't say that. They served their purpose in the early years of the Industrial Revolution when labor law and employee safety was not overseen by the government. That is no longer the case. Labor unions don't look out for worker health and safety any more, OSHA does.

OSHA = Big Government interference.

[Seth]

Yeah you are right, Seth. Unions have never done anything for workers.

I didn't say that. They served their purpose in the early years of the Industrial Revolution when labor law and employee safety was not overseen by the government. That is no longer the case. Labor unions don't look out for worker health and safety any more, OSHA does.

OSHA = Big Government interference.

Indeed, but not affected by the political interests of individual unions. Rules is rules, and they apply to everyone. Union contracts don't.

[JimC]

Yeah you are right, Seth. Unions have never done anything for workers.

I didn't say that. They served their purpose in the early years of the Industrial Revolution when labor law and employee safety was not overseen by the government. That is no longer the case. Labor unions don't look out for worker health and safety any more, OSHA does.

OSHA = Big Government interference.

Indeed, but not affected by the political interests of individual unions. Rules is rules, and they apply to everyone. Union contracts don't.

Untrue in Australia, at least in teaching. The award conditions and wages apply to all. Mind you, improvements in those conditions are due to pressure and negotiations by a union team, so the (relatively few) non-union members are free-loading on the union members, whose dues pay for the team of highly competent negotiators...

Also, I rest easy knowing that if I have a serious dispute with my employer, I will have the immediate assistance of a union representative who knows the fine print of the employment conditions perfectly. Non-union members are on their own...

[Seth]

Yeah you are right, Seth. Unions have never done anything for workers.

I didn't say that. They served their purpose in the early years of the Industrial Revolution when labor law and employee safety was not overseen by the government. That is no longer the case. Labor unions don't look out for worker health and safety any more, OSHA does.

OSHA = Big Government interference.

Indeed, but not affected by the political interests of individual unions. Rules is rules, and they apply to everyone. Union contracts don't.

Untrue in Australia, at least in teaching. The award conditions and wages apply to all. Mind you, improvements in those conditions are due to pressure and negotiations by a union team, so the (relatively few) non-union members are free-loading on the union members, whose dues pay for the team of highly competent negotiators...

Ah yes, the hoary old "free riders" union canard. Fuck them. I didn't ask them to represent or negotiate for me so they are doing it sua sponte and I owe them nothing. The most egregious wrong is that the non-union worker is not allowed to negotiate his own contract terms with the employer, but is forced into the pay scale with everyone else. So if I'm much better at my job than you are, I get screwed because you make the same as I do. So it's in my best interests to do the absolute minimum amount of work that I can get away with without being fired.

And the race to the bottom starts.

Also, I rest easy knowing that if I have a serious dispute with my employer, I will have the immediate assistance of a union representative who knows the fine print of the employment conditions perfectly. Non-union members are on their own...

And you think he gives a shit about you? How naive.