Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

[pErvinalia]

Where can I find this declaration of war that the citizens or their government declared?

And no, they aren't overrated. No wonder your country is in the shit it is in foreign policy wise if even the allegedly intelligent members of your society think like that.

[pErvinalia]

To put it even more simply, ISIS wouldn't exist without the US, UK and Australia's bogus invasion of Iraq.

[Svartalf]

I agree with rEvo. Nor is nuking Mecca going to help. Mecca is part of Saudi Arabia which is an ally against ISIS. Nuking them is not real smart!

I do not know the best way of dealing with ISIS, and I admit it. But I would be really edified to discover from the smarter ones on this forum, an alternative way of dealing with the situation that did not make things worse.

I'm not so sure the saudis are really allies... they share much of the same ultra rigorist ideas on islam as the jihadis do... and who do you think is bankrolling ISIS? I don't think it's Iran, as ISIS are sunnis.

[piscator]

Where can I find this declaration of war that the citizens or their government declared?

"Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places" 1996
(This Fatwa was redistributed in 1998)

By Osama bin Laden

Our youths believe in paradise after death. They believe that taking part in fighting will not bring their day nearer; and staying behind will not postpone their day either. Exalted be to Allah who said: {And a soul will not die but with the permission of Allah, the term is fixed} (Aal Imraan; 3:145). Our youths believe in the saying of the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him): "O boy, I teach a few words; guard (guard the cause of, keep the commandments of) Allah, then He guards you, guard (the cause of ) Allah, then He will be with you; if you ask (for your need) ask Allah, if you seek assistance, seek Allah's; and know definitely that if the Whole World gathered to (bestow) profit on you they will not profit you except with what was determined for you by Allah, and if they gathered to harm you they will not harm you except with what has been determined for you by Allah; Pen lifted, papers dried, it is fixed nothing in these truths can be changed" Saheeh Al-Jame' As-Sagheer. Our youths took note of the meaning of the poetic verse:

"if death is a predetermined must, then it is a shame to die cowardly."

and the other poet saying:

" Who do not die by the sword will die for other reasons; many causes are there but one death". ...blah blah blah Caliphate blah blah blagh

Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans -1998

By Osama bin Laden

blah blegh bla Caliphate blagh blagh

Letter to America, 2001

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,

"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]

"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76]
...blagh blah blaw

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/n ... heobserver



============================================================================================================================================================================================

And no, they aren't overrated. No wonder your country is in the shit it is in foreign policy wise if even the allegedly intelligent members of your society think like that.

Yes they are. And your pussy little attitude won't stop you from being a target.

[cronus]

The 9/11 bombers came from Saudi. It is difficult I know because some Americans consider Adolf Sheik Wahabi and the Saudies to be allies but they are likely bankrolling Isis, and trying to scupper the dollar using cheap oil as a weapon....you'd think they were behaving like, well, arabs?

[pErvinalia]

Where can I find this declaration of war that the citizens or their government declared?

"Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places" 1996
(This Fatwa was redistributed in 1998)

By Osama bin Laden

Our youths believe in paradise after death. They believe that taking part in fighting will not bring their day nearer; and staying behind will not postpone their day either. Exalted be to Allah who said: {And a soul will not die but with the permission of Allah, the term is fixed} (Aal Imraan; 3:145). Our youths believe in the saying of the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him): "O boy, I teach a few words; guard (guard the cause of, keep the commandments of) Allah, then He guards you, guard (the cause of ) Allah, then He will be with you; if you ask (for your need) ask Allah, if you seek assistance, seek Allah's; and know definitely that if the Whole World gathered to (bestow) profit on you they will not profit you except with what was determined for you by Allah, and if they gathered to harm you they will not harm you except with what has been determined for you by Allah; Pen lifted, papers dried, it is fixed nothing in these truths can be changed" Saheeh Al-Jame' As-Sagheer. Our youths took note of the meaning of the poetic verse:

"if death is a predetermined must, then it is a shame to die cowardly."

and the other poet saying:

" Who do not die by the sword will die for other reasons; many causes are there but one death". ...blah blah blah Caliphate blah blah blagh

Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans -1998

By Osama bin Laden

blah blegh bla Caliphate blagh blagh

Letter to America, 2001

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,

"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]

"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76]
...blagh blah blaw

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/n ... heobserver

You do realise that OBL is a Saudi, right?

So where is this declaration of war against America by the people or government of Pakistan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, (let alone Saudi Arabia) and probably some others I've forgotten?

============================================================================================================================================================================================

And no, they aren't overrated. No wonder your country is in the shit it is in foreign policy wise if even the allegedly intelligent members of your society think like that.

Yes they are. And your pussy little attitude won't stop you from being a target.

How's it working out for you? Terrorist numbers were up, last time I read the news. And your deficit and national debt was a basket case. Go Team Merka!! Ra Ra Ra!!

C'mon, you're smarter than that.

[pErvinalia]

I agree with rEvo. Nor is nuking Mecca going to help. Mecca is part of Saudi Arabia which is an ally against ISIS. Nuking them is not real smart!

I do not know the best way of dealing with ISIS, and I admit it. But I would be really edified to discover from the smarter ones on this forum, an alternative way of dealing with the situation that did not make things worse.

I'm not so sure the saudis are really allies... they share much of the same ultra rigorist ideas on islam as the jihadis do... and who do you think is bankrolling ISIS? I don't think it's Iran, as ISIS are sunnis.

Saudi controls the juice. Merka is hooked, so can't do much about it.

[pErvinalia]

The 9/11 bombers came from Saudi. It is difficult I know because some Americans consider Adolf Sheik Wahabi and the Saudies to be allies but they are likely bankrolling Isis, and trying to scupper the dollar using cheap oil as a weapon....you'd think they were behaving like, well, arabs?

"Cheap oil as a weapon"??

Cheap oil means full steam ahead on the good ship capitalism. Particularly in the helm where Captain Capitalism has a hideous trade imbalance.

[piscator]

You do realise that OBL is a Saudi, right?

Who was wanted in SA when he sat in Afghanistan and dictated his fatwas. Do you think these people are fighting for their countries? Please explain the qualifications for Palestinian citizenship.

So where is this declaration of war against America by the people or government of Pakistan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, (let alone Saudi Arabia) and probably some others I've forgotten?

Haji left it in his uniform closet, along with the Ottawa Convention Against Land Mines and the Geneva Conventions.

And no, they aren't overrated. No wonder your country is in the shit it is in foreign policy wise if even the allegedly intelligent members of your society think like that.

Yes they are. And your pussy little attitude won't stop you from being a target.

How's it working out for you? Terrorist numbers were up, last time I read the news. And your deficit and national debt was a basket case. Go Team Merka!! Ra Ra Ra!! C'mon, you're smarter than that.

We're fuckin' this kitty, you're just holding the tail. The lack of significant terrorism in your continent has nothing to do with your sterling personal qualities. You can anguish over the enemy's civilian casualties if you like, I'll save mine for our own at this point.

[pErvinalia]

This is a rationalist site. Emotive ra ra nonsense will be treated with the contempt it deserves. As I said, you are smarter than this.

[pErvinalia]

Can we all kill Merkans now with impunity because your democratically elected President was morally a war criminal? That's the kind of retarded logic you are using. In fact, it's worse, as people in democracy can be held more accountable for their government's actions than people in authoritarian hell holes. Luckily for you guys, you don't really have much of a democracy any more. But I'd gladly send the CEO's of walmart and apple over to fight on the frontlines in the war on trrrrsm.

[rainbow]

Are vegetarians kosher?

Some are, but they'll do the right thing if asked. Good kosher pizza is da bom. If you keep kashrut so tight you don't eat with the goy and don't think God will forgive you for eating the chicken Club, tell it to the Muzzies.

I once had a kosher pickle from Zabars. Does that count?

[laklak]

If Dear Leader was burning people alive on the TeeVee and only 62% of the population thought this was a bad idea I'd expect a bit of backlash from the rest of the world. We manage to keep our loonies pretty much in check, despite the wailing about gunz and Rethuglicans.

Wholesale slaughter is probably not the best idea, but if correctly implemented would certainly be effective. So I'm happy to entertain other ideas. Maybe we should beam Sesame Street to all their houses, teach them to coexist. We can all sit down at the table of brotherhood and have a pulled pork sammich, at least until one of them detonates their Semtex vest.

IS works in the world of realpolitik. They're not interested in abstract concepts like justice or due process or democracy or peaceful coexistence. They want all the marbles and are willing to do whatever it takes to get them. Plus their leadership is sociopathic (not the worst personality trait for despots, to be sure). We're not going to have much luck placating them with bits and pieces of the Mideast. At some point we're going to have to deal with the jihadis, might as well do it now before it gets worse. Hell, losing a billion or two is probably the Green thing to do.

[pErvinalia]

If Dear Leader was burning people alive on the TeeVee and only 62% of the population thought this was a bad idea I'd expect a bit of backlash from the rest of the world. We manage to keep our loonies pretty much in check, despite the wailing about gunz and Rethuglicans.

Bush was a loony. You didn't keep him in check.

Wholesale slaughter is probably not the best idea,

Ya think?

IS works in the world of realpolitik. They're not interested in abstract concepts like justice or due process or democracy or peaceful coexistence. They want all the marbles and are willing to do whatever it takes to get them. Plus their leadership is sociopathic (not the worst personality trait for despots, to be sure). We're not going to have much luck placating them with bits and pieces of the Mideast. At some point we're going to have to deal with the jihadis, might as well do it now before it gets worse. Hell, losing a billion or two is probably the Green thing to do.

The difference between realpolitik and what IS is all about is religious lunacy. Realpolitik only works for this world, not the forever-after with the 72 virgins.

The only principle that should matter is reducing the threat of terrorism. Creating MORE terrorists is clearly not the smartest thing to do.

[laklak]

I agree, but how do you DO that? They were creating terrorists long before Iraq I. Yeah Israel yeah infidels on Holy Land yeah yeah. Their reasons for flying airliners into skyscrapers were a bit thin. So kowtowing to them isn't going to stop them. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, after all. Their religious imperative is to forcibly convert or kill everybody else. You cannot negotiate with that sort of lunacy.