Socialism/Marxism and balance.

[MrJonno]

Your problem is that you have not established a philosophical or moral basis for assuming that one individual is financially or physically responsible for another individual, you try to assume it a priori, which is a logical fallacy.

Actually I couldnt give a shit about morality, it has no real place in politics and exists only in people's head. I'm only interested in what allows society to function.

You keep the masses fed, busy and in a reasonable quality of life or they all riot, probably have a communist revolution and society collapses. That's what I worry about not meaningless bollocks like right and wrong

[JimC]

Panem et circusem...

[rainbow]

Give them bread and circumcision...?

[MrJonno]

Panem et circusem...

In modern language that's the basis necessities for life (food, water, healthcare) and luxury goods (tv, music)

Anything else is basically irrelevant for 99.99% of people, the other 0.01% are basically philosophers and internet forum warriors

[piscator]

That's where Seth fails so often here. He thinks freedom (liberty) is valuable to people.
If given unlimited choice, 99.99% of us would find some addiction and run it out til we died like coke monkeys. We just don't have enough imagination.

[pErvinalia]

What's most important to humans is surviving, not freedum. Hence why most don't give much shit about it.

[MrJonno]

Freedom has value but its a luxury that you worry about after the more basics in life are sorted out

[Seth]

Your problem is that you have not established a philosophical or moral basis for assuming that one individual is financially or physically responsible for another individual, you try to assume it a priori, which is a logical fallacy.

Actually I couldnt give a shit about morality,

There's the understatement of the century.

it has no real place in politics and exists only in people's head.

Evidently that's what Hitler thought too.

I'm only interested in what allows society to function.

Morality and principles allow society to function. Without them it's the law of the jungle and the tyranny of the majority.

You keep the masses fed, busy and in a reasonable quality of life or they all riot, probably have a communist revolution and society collapses.

Or you just kill the dissidents and economically useless (like yourself).

That's what I worry about not meaningless bollocks like right and wrong

I'd venture a guess that most useless social parasites who exist only because the government steals from others on their behalf feel the same way, probably because they know full well that they will be the first ones shot in the back of the head in front of a shallow mass grave if the authoritarian society they rely upon ever fails and those off of whom they have been leeching for decades get fed up with the brazenness of the theft.

[Seth]

That's where Seth fails so often here. He thinks freedom (liberty) is valuable to people.
If given unlimited choice, 99.99% of us would find some addiction and run it out til we died like coke monkeys. We just don't have enough imagination.

Given that such addictions are easily available and nowhere near 99% of us succumb to them, I think you're wrong.

Still, I advocate "roach motels" for addicts of every stripe. Government run, these facilities would take in, house, feed and supply unlimited, pure-quill pharmaceutical-grade drugs to anyone who cares to check in for as long as they live. The quid pro quo is that the only way you check out is in a body bag.

Humane and effective.

[Seth]

That's where Seth fails so often here. He thinks freedom (liberty) is valuable to people.

Interesting isn't it that people all over the world throughout history have fought and died to achieve it? Is there a better indication of the value of liberty and freedom?

I imagine that if you were placed in the kind of involuntary servitude that blacks endured in the US, or that sex slaves worldwide endure, you'd want to fight for your liberty and freedom.

[Seth]

Freedom has value but its a luxury that you worry about after the more basics in life are sorted out

Which fails to explain why so many people are willing to fight and die, and even starve in order to preserve or obtain their freedom and liberty.

[Blind groper]

Seth

I would agree that liberty is very important. However, like pretty much everything, it is all relative. For a slave, being worked to death, that liberty is top of his priority list. For someone who is very free (most of us) a little more liberty is unimportant.

You, Seth, have the habit of assuming that people outside your sphere lack freedom. In fact, the whole western world has a high degree of freedom. Those you call Marxist tools (incorrectly) are also free. I am free. My government adheres to all the principles laid down in the United Nations Charter of Human Rights, and I enjoy all those freedoms.

So how many people who enjoy all the freedom I enjoy would lay their lives on the line, and possibly die, in the cause of a little extra freedom? Only those who are massively insane!

[piscator]

That's where Seth fails so often here. He thinks freedom (liberty) is valuable to people.
If given unlimited choice, 99.99% of us would find some addiction and run it out til we died like coke monkeys. We just don't have enough imagination.

Given that such addictions are easily available and nowhere near 99% of us succumb to them, I think you're wrong.

Still, I advocate "roach motels" for addicts of every stripe. Government run, these facilities would take in, house, feed and supply unlimited, pure-quill pharmaceutical-grade drugs to anyone who cares to check in for as long as they live. The quid pro quo is that the only way you check out is in a body bag.

Humane and effective.

Stop fapping in public, Seth. Most Americans eat themselves to an early grave.

[Seth]

Stop fapping in public, Seth. Most Americans eat themselves to an early grave.

So what? Doing so is a protected civil right, or had that not occurred to you?

[Seth]

Seth

I would agree that liberty is very important. However, like pretty much everything, it is all relative. For a slave, being worked to death, that liberty is top of his priority list. For someone who is very free (most of us) a little more liberty is unimportant.

Only because you're idiots who simply don't understand how very fragile your freedom and liberty actually are and therefore you're in constant danger of losing both before you have any idea what's happening.

You, Seth, have the habit of assuming that people outside your sphere lack freedom.

Most of them do lack true freedom because most of them cannot arm themselves to defend that freedom against a tyrant, therefore they are not free, they are living by permission of their masters, and their privileges can be revoked with the stroke of a pen and there's not a damned thing they can do about it if the tyrant is determined to retain power. No matter how apparently benevolent the tyrant, it's still tyranny and the slaves are still slaves, subject to the whims and caprices of those who rule them. A free man is free because he is armed and able to seize his freedom and liberties by force of arms should it become necessary to do so. Everybody else is a serf and/or a slave.

In fact, the whole western world has a high degree of freedom. Those you call Marxist tools (incorrectly) are also free. I am free. My government adheres to all the principles laid down in the United Nations Charter of Human Rights, and I enjoy all those freedoms.

Except the one essential freedom that protects all the other freedoms when the United Nations decide to abbreviate your freedoms for this or that reason: the right to keep and bear arms.

So how many people who enjoy all the freedom I enjoy would lay their lives on the line, and possibly die, in the cause of a little extra freedom? Only those who are massively insane!

You're either free or you're not, and if you aren't armed and prepared to defend that freedom, you're not free, you're a slave who has become comfortable in his chains of gold...you should pray that your masters never choose to jerk your chain, because if (when) they do, there's fuck-all you can do about it, slave-boy.