Science Increasingly Makes the Case for God

[rainbow]

It may not even be the only universe. String theory suggests that E500 universes exist, and each has different physical constants. With a number that large (indistinguishable from infinity), everything must happen somewhere.

...including God.

Seths example of a Shakespeare novel is actually what distinguishes E500 or even E500*E500 from infinity, and the difference is huge.

If you put 500 random digits in a row, you already can do it in 1E500 ways. with 28 characters in the set a 345 characters long text is enough. So there is no way a random process anywhere can ever stumble upon much more than a short sentence of Shakespeare, even less create the letters to write it in and the man to write it. Unless we go to true infinities.

...so God did it?

If there is an infinity of universes in which "everything must happen somewhere" then somewhere there is a universe with God in it. And statistically speaking it's just as likely to be this one as any other.

Logically.

No more to be said, then...

[Animavore]

...including God.

Seths example of a Shakespeare novel is actually what distinguishes E500 or even E500*E500 from infinity, and the difference is huge.

If you put 500 random digits in a row, you already can do it in 1E500 ways. with 28 characters in the set a 345 characters long text is enough. So there is no way a random process anywhere can ever stumble upon much more than a short sentence of Shakespeare, even less create the letters to write it in and the man to write it. Unless we go to true infinities.

...so God did it?

If there is an infinity of universes in which "everything must happen somewhere" then somewhere there is a universe with God in it. And statistically speaking it's just as likely to be this one as any other.

Logically.

No more to be said, then...

Oh really?



The assertion assumes god has a probability above zero and that god is a sub-set of 'everything' that happens.

Good luck working out the former and demonstrating the latter

[Animavore]

I see the problem with Blind groper's statement. He should of said, 'everything that CAN happen MUST happen'. If there are infinite universes and they all obey the laws of physics (albeit turned differently), and those laws prohibit disembodied minds which can create universes, then gods are not a sub-set of everything that can happen no matter how many universes are bumbed out of the brane.

[Seth]

If there is an infinity of universes in which "everything must happen somewhere" then somewhere there is a universe with God in it. And statistically speaking it's just as likely to be this one as any other.

God is defined as the First Cause and Uncaused Cause. There can only be one God as per Judeo/Christian/Islamic theology. If God exists then he exists for all and any universes as the Uncaused First Cause.
If there is an infinite regress then it doesn't matter how many universes exist, God can never exist because the Uncaused Cause cannot have a cause external to himself. It doesn't matter how many universes exist, the Uncaused Cause cannot exist in any of them independantly of any other because it cannot be caused within any of them.

Unless you want to make your own definition of 'God'... I'm fine with that... I wonder how the religious might feel, though.

Reasonable inference provided that the stated definition is correct. What if it's not?

The thought has occurred to me. Religious people are wrong about lots of things, why not the nature of God himself? Maybe all religion is is a bunch of people faffing off about things they can't, don't and can never know, each of them being fabulously wrong.

There is another rather interesting possibility. Maybe God is wrong about his own nature. Maybe he only thinks he's omniscient. Maybe he only thinks he's uncaused because all he knows is himself and his creation. How would he know that that's all there is?

Think about it. Imagine we lived in a world where no new science had been done for over a thousand years and every time someone thought they'd alighted on something new they Googled it only to find th answer was already out there. Some might be tempted to believe that we know everything - they might be right - but how would they ever truly know?

How would God know he's exempt from the same limitations of knowledge?

Excellent post! What if God is a junior high schooler doing a science-fair project in an adjacent membrane universe?

[Seth]

I see the problem with Blind groper's statement. He should of said, 'everything that CAN happen MUST happen'. If there are infinite universes and they all obey the laws of physics (albeit turned differently), and those laws prohibit disembodied minds which can create universes, then gods are not a sub-set of everything that can happen no matter how many universes are bumbed out of the brane.

This falsely presumes that our universe prohibits "disembodied minds which can create universes." You have zero evidence to show that this is the case.

Put simply, just because you haven't seen it or don't know about it doesn't mean it neither exists nor can exist.

[pErvinalia]

If there is an infinity of universes in which "everything must happen somewhere" then somewhere there is a universe with God in it. And statistically speaking it's just as likely to be this one as any other.

God is defined as the First Cause and Uncaused Cause. There can only be one God as per Judeo/Christian/Islamic theology. If God exists then he exists for all and any universes as the Uncaused First Cause.
If there is an infinite regress then it doesn't matter how many universes exist, God can never exist because the Uncaused Cause cannot have a cause external to himself. It doesn't matter how many universes exist, the Uncaused Cause cannot exist in any of them independantly of any other because it cannot be caused within any of them.

Unless you want to make your own definition of 'God'... I'm fine with that... I wonder how the religious might feel, though.

Reasonable inference provided that the stated definition is correct. What if it's not?

The thought has occurred to me. Religious people are wrong about lots of things, why not the nature of God himself? Maybe all religion is is a bunch of people faffing off about things they can't, don't and can never know, each of them being fabulously wrong.

There is another rather interesting possibility. Maybe God is wrong about his own nature. Maybe he only thinks he's omniscient. Maybe he only thinks he's uncaused because all he knows is himself and his creation. How would he know that that's all there is?

Think about it. Imagine we lived in a world where no new science had been done for over a thousand years and every time someone thought they'd alighted on something new they Googled it only to find th answer was already out there. Some might be tempted to believe that we know everything - they might be right - but how would they ever truly know?

How would God know he's exempt from the same limitations of knowledge?

Excellent post! What if God is a junior high schooler doing a science-fair project in an adjacent membrane universe?

What if God is an invention out of an advanced brain that due to it's advancedness wonders about its place in the universe? Crazy, I know.

[Animavore]

I see the problem with Blind groper's statement. He should of said, 'everything that CAN happen MUST happen'. If there are infinite universes and they all obey the laws of physics (albeit turned differently), and those laws prohibit disembodied minds which can create universes, then gods are not a sub-set of everything that can happen no matter how many universes are bumbed out of the brane.

This falsely presumes that our universe prohibits "disembodied minds which can create universes." You have zero evidence to show that this is the case.

Put simply, just because you haven't seen it or don't know about it doesn't mean it neither exists nor can exist.

I actually didn't falsely presume anything because my post was in the form of "if...?"

[piscator]

Also, there is zero evidence that Seth doesn't fuck buffaloes. Simply put, just because you haven't seen it or don't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen nor can't continue to happen, frequently.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, I have faith that Seth is a buffalo fucker. What is a life lived without faith, I ask you? No one can prove that he isn't a buffalo fucker, so it makes sense to believe that he gives sweet Seth love to buffalos.

[piscator]

Yeah, I have faith that Seth is a buffalo fucker. What is a life lived without faith, I ask you? No one can prove that he isn't a buffalo fucker, so it makes sense to believe that he gives sweet Seth love to buffalos.

Spot on topic, for as Seth has intoned in this self same thread:

What "necessary burden of proof?" When speaking philosophically, as we are, the assertion is taken at face value and the challenger is free to refute the reasoning with reasoning of his own. You're trying to apply a scientific burden of proof to a philosophical and theological discussion, which is improper and pointless.

When one considers the leap to faith is itself an act of faith, he can begin to grasp a glimpse of the dizzying grandeur of the notion of faith itself, as well as some prime hairy buffalo hump.

[pErvinalia]

[Seth]

What if God is an invention out of an advanced brain that due to it's advancedness wonders about its place in the universe? Crazy, I know.

Indeed. On both counts.

[Seth]

I see the problem with Blind groper's statement. He should of said, 'everything that CAN happen MUST happen'. If there are infinite universes and they all obey the laws of physics (albeit turned differently), and those laws prohibit disembodied minds which can create universes, then gods are not a sub-set of everything that can happen no matter how many universes are bumbed out of the brane.

This falsely presumes that our universe prohibits "disembodied minds which can create universes." You have zero evidence to show that this is the case.

Put simply, just because you haven't seen it or don't know about it doesn't mean it neither exists nor can exist.

I actually didn't falsely presume anything because my post was in the form of "if...?"

I didn't say "you" I said "this", meaning your argument. But you are correct given your premises. But my reply then can be rewritten as "What in our universe..."

My philosophical objection is that you presuppose the conclusion in your premise by saying "and those laws prohibit disembodied minds which can create universes..." You limit the scope of response by stating the "if" in a way that must lead to your conclusion, which isn't really useful to the discussion.

The question is, of course, does our or any other universe allow for such "disembodied minds?"

[Animavore]

I see the problem with Blind groper's statement. He should of said, 'everything that CAN happen MUST happen'. If there are infinite universes and they all obey the laws of physics (albeit turned differently), and those laws prohibit disembodied minds which can create universes, then gods are not a sub-set of everything that can happen no matter how many universes are bumbed out of the brane.

This falsely presumes that our universe prohibits "disembodied minds which can create universes." You have zero evidence to show that this is the case.

Put simply, just because you haven't seen it or don't know about it doesn't mean it neither exists nor can exist.

I actually didn't falsely presume anything because my post was in the form of "if...?"

I didn't say "you" I said "this", meaning your argument. But you are correct given your premises. But my reply then can be rewritten as "What in our universe..."

My philosophical objection is that you presuppose the conclusion in your premise by saying "and those laws prohibit disembodied minds which can create universes..." You limit the scope of response by stating the "if" in a way that must lead to your conclusion, which isn't really useful to the discussion.

The question is, of course, does our or any other universe allow for such "disembodied minds?"

No. no, Seth. I don't presuppose anything. I clearly said, "

If there are infinite universes and they all obey the laws of physics (albeit turned differently),...[snip]

etc. etc.

The question of whether our or any other universe allows for disembodied minds is open.

[pErvinalia]

Science increasingly makes the case for Seth as a buffalo humper. Go on Seeth, prove me wrong!