Immigrants make you richer.

[cronus]

America is not a true democracy governed by proportional representation where any one from any background can take up leadership based on the appeal of their case before a well educated electorate. It is a two party one ethos, serve the very very rich, dictatorship.

[piscator]

Britain is not a true monarchy governed by Divine Right where anyone born into the right family is also born into leadership based on Rights of Succession, which are also Divine. But it is indeed a monarchical ethos, designed to ensure the continuation of a class system left over from the Middle Ages. In short, you Brits are born to serve and protect your aristocracy, who are obliged, inasmuch as is practicable, to write and administer laws meant keep you from hurting yourselves as their part of the bargain.

[Blind groper]

OK, Scumple and Piscator. I get your point. New Zealand is the only True Democracy, and the rest of you should get your act together, and change your system of government to copy NZ.

Copyright fees are payable.

[laklak]

Fuck democracy. Bunch of morons voting based on the latest Tweet. Put me in charge, I'll get it sorted in short damn order.

[Seth]

To Seth

On the history of democracy. Let me repeat, the USA did not make a 'gift' of democracy to the world. Nor did France. Modern democracy began in Britain. A little history.

In 1376, King John signed the Magna Carta. This limited the power of the king, and instituted the idea of 'habeas corpus', meaning that the king could not imprison someone without cause or without a charge being laid.

1376. The first Speaker to the House of Commons was appointed. This gave the people a means by which grievances could be passed on to the monarch.

1688. The Bill of Rights was enacted, restricting the power of the monarch, and passing most power to Parliament. This first affected William of Orange, but King George III, much hated by Americans, was also severely limited in his powers.

Before the American rebellion, the colonists had a House of Assemblies to advise and assist the governors. American colonists voted for these people, under the British form of democracy.

There is a widespread fallacy held by overly chauvinistic Americans that the rebellion was about liberty. Not at all. That is a case of a rationalisation being mistaken for a reason. The real cause of the rebellion was a tiny minority of very rich Americans resenting Britain imposing taxes. However, you cannot get poor people to stick their necks on the chopping block, becoming cannon fodder, in order to reduce the taxes the wealthy pay. So the propaganda machine was used, to make the poor think it was about liberty. In fact, American colonists before the rebellion were just as free as after, if not more so.

Incidentally, the only reason the colonists 'won' their war was due to the fact that Britain at the time was in a 'cold war' with no less than four other nations, and had to keep most of its troops at home. Britain was a far mightier power than the tiddly little colonies at the time. The disparity was seen in the 1812 war, in which the USA, in an act of unjustifiable aggression decided to conquer Canada. Britain was ensconsed in the war with Napoleon at the time, showing that the young USA was cowardly, rebelling and attacking only when their enemy was weakened by other, more powerful enemies. However, in 1814, the war with Napoleon was over, and Britain then made short work of the USA, even occupying Washington DC and burning down the White House. The only success the USA had after 1814 was the Battle of New Orleans. They had to capitulate and get their sorry asses out of Canada.

The early American democracy was not a true democracy. They had a raft of rules about who could and could not vote. In fact, only about 6% of the population in 1787 had the right to vote. So the concept of democracy at that time was a joke!

Both American and British democracies began in a small way, and evolved. Both did not give full voting rights to pretty much everyone until after WWI. In the USA American gave women the vote in 1920, and America could not be called a true democracy till then.

Modern democracy began in Britain, and evolved to its true glory as a British institution. Americans who think it was their gift to the world are wanking themselves.

The US is not, and never has been a democracy, and with any luck never will be. As H.L. Mencken said, "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

I also like this one: "In every unbeliever's heart there is an uneasy feeling that, after all, he may awake after death and find himself immortal. This is his punishment for his unbelief. This is the agnostic's Hell. — H. L. Mencken"

Democracy is hell on earth for anyone not obedient to the majority.

[Seth]

America is not a true democracy governed by proportional representation where any one from any background can take up leadership based on the appeal of their case before a well educated electorate. It is a two party one ethos, serve the very very rich, dictatorship.

Empirically, but not technically true.

[rainbow]

Like Seth's delusion that owning guns will stop a government being oppressive. I have this image in mind of Seth and his buddies charging a government and military establishment, waving their assorted small arms, until they encounter the heavy weaponry of the military.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Take that paradise of Libertarianism, Somalia. Nearly everyone walks around with an AK47, and there is no Big Government telling people what to do.

You can even be a pirate, if you want.

Except it's not a Libertarian culture. Obviously they use force and fraud constantly, therefore they cannot be Libertarian.

...but they have guns and aren't afraid to use them. I thought this was what Libertarians believe in.
Therefore a Libertarian culture.

[pErvinalia]

Like Seth's delusion that owning guns will stop a government being oppressive. I have this image in mind of Seth and his buddies charging a government and military establishment, waving their assorted small arms, until they encounter the heavy weaponry of the military.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Take that paradise of Libertarianism, Somalia. Nearly everyone walks around with an AK47, and there is no Big Government telling people what to do.

You can even be a pirate, if you want.

Except it's not a Libertarian culture. Obviously they use force and fraud constantly, therefore they cannot be Libertarian. Nice use of the strawman fallacy though.

Seth wrote: "It is MY obligation, and/or the right of my contemporaries and community to defend my title against an initiation of force or fraud."

and...

"Title settles on he who occupies the land when the previous owner dies."

As usual, your story is full of holes. According to your past pronouncements it's the obligation of the property holder to defend the title against force or fraud, and if they can't (eg. die in the attempt or lack thereof), then they forfeit title. I.e, force or fraud isn't a critical problem, it's the inability to defend against it that is the problem.

AKA, he who has the biggest gun in libertarianism wins.

[piscator]

Seth is fantasizing, or just reading too much shit put out by the private security or private prison industries about how they'd like the world to be.

I'm sure there'd be "Businesses" with hundreds or thousands of "Employees" who would specialize in taking and holding people's land after they died. A generation or so, they got All the land...

[piscator]

Fuck democracy. Bunch of morons voting based on the latest Tweet. Put me in charge, I'll get it sorted in short damn order.

Then we'd have a Monarchy like New Zealand! All hail King Lak!

[pErvinalia]

King Lak would give us all drinking and fishing holidays!

[mistermack]

I watched the Aussie border control program today.

Vietnamese immigrants making ten trips to and from Vietnam in three months.
Eventually stopped, and found to have over a million dollars of drugs in the case.
All of the ones caught for drugs were immigrants.

They don't all end up surgeons.

[Seth]

Like Seth's delusion that owning guns will stop a government being oppressive. I have this image in mind of Seth and his buddies charging a government and military establishment, waving their assorted small arms, until they encounter the heavy weaponry of the military.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Take that paradise of Libertarianism, Somalia. Nearly everyone walks around with an AK47, and there is no Big Government telling people what to do.

You can even be a pirate, if you want.

Except it's not a Libertarian culture. Obviously they use force and fraud constantly, therefore they cannot be Libertarian.

...but they have guns and aren't afraid to use them. I thought this was what Libertarians believe in.
Therefore a Libertarian culture.

You're just demonstrating willful ignorance of Libertarianism. The first principle of Libertarianism is "Thou shalt not initiate force or fraud."

Having guns and being willing to use them is not an inherent principle of Libertarianism, it's a manifestation of the liberty one has as a Libertarian.

[laklak]

King Lak would give us all drinking and fishing holidays!

Fuckin' A. Two choices - fish and drink, or work the mines.

[pErvinalia]