2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by JimC » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:42 pm

Hermit wrote:
JimC wrote:
mistermack wrote:Maths is ultimately physics. Without the physical, all you have is zeros.
Not in Plato's cave...
Even in Plato's cave. The prisoners mistake the shadows for real things, but clearly, without real things there'd be no shadows. There's no shadow of a doubt about that.
In Plato's cave, the "real things" are mathematical idealisations whose existence is somehow deeper than their physical substantiations...
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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by Hermit » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:47 pm

JimC wrote:
Hermit wrote:
JimC wrote:
mistermack wrote:Maths is ultimately physics. Without the physical, all you have is zeros.
Not in Plato's cave...
Even in Plato's cave. The prisoners mistake the shadows for real things, but clearly, without real things there'd be no shadows. There's no shadow of a doubt about that.
In Plato's cave, the "real things" are mathematical idealisations whose existence is somehow deeper than their physical substantiations...
Yes, that was Plato's argument. He also used to argue that the idealisations have a very real existence somewhere out there in the ontological sky. Do you think the analogy of the cave actually demonstrates any of that?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:39 am

JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote::hehe:

How about the constipated mathematician who worked it all out with a pencil..? :prof:
But he wasn't that good, he couldn't budget.
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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by JimC » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:53 am

Hermit wrote:
JimC wrote:
Hermit wrote:
JimC wrote:
mistermack wrote:Maths is ultimately physics. Without the physical, all you have is zeros.
Not in Plato's cave...
Even in Plato's cave. The prisoners mistake the shadows for real things, but clearly, without real things there'd be no shadows. There's no shadow of a doubt about that.
In Plato's cave, the "real things" are mathematical idealisations whose existence is somehow deeper than their physical substantiations...
Yes, that was Plato's argument. He also used to argue that the idealisations have a very real existence somewhere out there in the ontological sky. Do you think the analogy of the cave actually demonstrates any of that?
The analogy is certainly not proof, but I'm happy to grant the possibility of the existence of an underlying mathematical space, at a "deeper" level than the physical universe...

Depending, of course, on the definitions one uses for "existence" and "deeper"...
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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:24 am

*cough* wibble *cough*

;)
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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by JimC » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:18 am

rEvolutionist wrote:*cough* wibble *cough*

;)
I'd see someone about that cough - sounds nasty...
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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by Hermit » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:38 am

Hermit wrote:
JimC wrote:
Hermit wrote:
JimC wrote:
mistermack wrote:Maths is ultimately physics. Without the physical, all you have is zeros.
Not in Plato's cave...
Even in Plato's cave. The prisoners mistake the shadows for real things, but clearly, without real things there'd be no shadows. There's no shadow of a doubt about that.
In Plato's cave, the "real things" are mathematical idealisations whose existence is somehow deeper than their physical substantiations...
Yes, that was Plato's argument. He also used to argue that the idealisations have a very real existence somewhere out there in the ontological sky. Do you think the analogy of the cave actually demonstrates any of that?
JimC wrote:The analogy is certainly not proof, but I'm happy to grant the possibility of the existence of an underlying mathematical space, at a "deeper" level than the physical universe...

Depending, of course, on the definitions one uses for "existence" and "deeper"...
So your claim that there can be mathematics without an underlying physical world is based on your happiness with the idea? Great. ;)
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by JimC » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:52 am

My happiness is immaterial...

:hehe:
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Re: 2014 Nobel Prize For Chemistry

Post by piscator » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:44 am

So is the set of all sets that are not members of themselves...

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