Toldjaso! - WMDs in Iraq

[Seth]

US
New York Times Bombshell: Chemical Weapons Were Found in Iraq — But the Public Never Knew Until Now
Oct. 14, 2014 10:58pm Oliver Darcy
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Chemical weapons were found by U.S. forces in Iraq, but the Pentagon kept the findings a secret, the New York Times reported Tuesday evening.

According to the Times, from 2004 to 2011 American troops repeatedly encountered chemical munitions in the Middle Eastern country. In at least six cases, coalition forces were even wounded by the weapons from the Saddam Hussein era, the Times reported.

Drawing upon interviews and intelligence documents, the Times concluded that U.S. forces reported finding approximately 5,000 chemical warheads in the war-torn country.

The American government, however, chose to not disclose the information to the public and even kept Congress only partly informed, according to the Times.

Chemical weapons were found during the Iraq War but the public never knew about it. Until now: http://t.co/tTDLmHqjps http://t.co/HkigTxIgGb

— New York Times Video (@nytvideo) October 15, 2014

“’Nothing of significance’ is what I was ordered to say,” said Jarrod Lampier, a now-retired Army major who was present when forces found 2,400 nerve agent rockets in 2006 — the largest chemical weapons discovery of the war.

“’Nothing of significance’ is what I was ordered to say.”

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Another soldier, Jarrod L. Taylor, who witnessed the destruction of mustard shells, joked of “wounds that never happened” from “that stuff that didn’t exist,” the Times reported.
KUWAIT - FEBRUARY 12: U.S. Army 3rd Infantry Division, 1st Battalion, 39th Field Artillery Regiment Delta company soldiers race to put on protective gas masks during a training exercise February 12, 2003 near the Iraqi border in northern Kuwait. The soldiers are trained to put their masks on in nine seconds in response to a chemical or biological attack on their unit. The U.S. military continues to buildup forces in the region ahead of a possible conflict in Iraq. (Scott Nelson/Getty Images)

KUWAIT – FEBRUARY 12: U.S. Army 3rd Infantry Division, 1st Battalion, 39th Field Artillery Regiment Delta company soldiers race to put on protective gas masks during a training exercise February 12, 2003 near the Iraqi border in northern Kuwait. The soldiers are trained to put their masks on in nine seconds in response to a chemical or biological attack on their unit. The U.S. military continues to buildup forces in the region ahead of a possible conflict in Iraq. (Scott Nelson/Getty Images)

According to the Times, the finding of the chemical weapons still didn’t support President George W. Bush’s rationale for war because he contended Hussein was concealing an active chemical weapons program. Instead, U.S. forces discovered munitions that had been manufactured before 1991, possibly leading the government to not disclose the findings.

“They needed something to say that after Sept. 11 Saddam used chemical rounds,” Lampier said. “And all of this was from the pre-1991 era.”

Others told the Times that the U.S. may have hidden the findings because five of the six incidents in which coalition forces were wounded by chemical weapons involved munitions designed by the U.S.

Rear Admiral John Kirby declined to comment to the Times on their report, but said that a review had been launched to ensure military members were provided proper medical care.

[pErvinalia]

Bollocks.

[Hermit]

Bollocks.

Of course it is. Coming from Seth, what do you expect from his quote?

It pays to look at the New York Times article itself to find out what Darcy's distortion is about. Here are some excerpts indicating the magnitude of Darcy's twists:

• The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West.
  
  
  American troops began encountering old chemical munitions in hidden caches and roadside bombs. Typically 155-millimeter artillery shells or 122-millimeter rockets, they were remnants of an arms program Iraq had rushed into production in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war.
  
  All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.
  
  
  Many chemical weapons incidents clustered around the ruins of the Muthanna State Establishment, the center of Iraqi chemical agent production in the 1980s.
  
  
  Participants in the chemical weapons discoveries said the United States suppressed knowledge of finds for multiple reasons, including that the government bristled at further acknowledgment it had been wrong. “They needed something to say that after Sept. 11 Saddam used chemical rounds,” Mr. Lampier said. “And all of this was from the pre-1991 era.”
  
  Others pointed to another embarrassment. In five of six incidents in which troops were wounded by chemical agents, the munitions appeared to have been designed in the United States, manufactured in Europe and filled in chemical agent production lines built in Iraq by Western companies.

And so on. "Toldjaso" indeed.

Pays to follow up on things some posters paste, doesn't it?

[Seth]

Bollocks.

Of course it is. Coming from Seth, what do you expect from his quote?

It pays to look at the New York Times article itself to find out what Darcy's distortion is about. Here are some excerpts indicating the magnitude of Darcy's twists:

• The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West.
  
  
  American troops began encountering old chemical munitions in hidden caches and roadside bombs. Typically 155-millimeter artillery shells or 122-millimeter rockets, they were remnants of an arms program Iraq had rushed into production in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war.
  
  All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.
  
  
  Many chemical weapons incidents clustered around the ruins of the Muthanna State Establishment, the center of Iraqi chemical agent production in the 1980s.
  
  
  Participants in the chemical weapons discoveries said the United States suppressed knowledge of finds for multiple reasons, including that the government bristled at further acknowledgment it had been wrong. “They needed something to say that after Sept. 11 Saddam used chemical rounds,” Mr. Lampier said. “And all of this was from the pre-1991 era.”
  
  Others pointed to another embarrassment. In five of six incidents in which troops were wounded by chemical agents, the munitions appeared to have been designed in the United States, manufactured in Europe and filled in chemical agent production lines built in Iraq by Western companies.

And so on. "Toldjaso" indeed.

Pays to follow up on things some posters paste, doesn't it?

There were chemical WMDs in Iraq. He used them on the Kurds. They were still there when we got there. Saddam failed to surrender them and deliberately tried to give the world the impression that he had an active nuclear program in operation. He succeeded brilliantly at that charade, to the extent that it became necessary to invade.

And then there are the chemical munitions moved to Syria (imagine that) under the guise of "earthquake aid" in a series of 747 flights and truck convoys that took place just before hostilities resumed because Saddam refused to abide by the terms of the cease fire.

Doesn't matter how old they were, they were WMDs. Doesn't matter who made them or where they came from, they were found in Iraq. Not that finding WMDs was a requirement for resuming hostilities with Saddam. That was justified by his refusal to abide by 14 UN resolutions in 12 years and his successful program of sham nuclear and biological research.

He ended up in a hole in the ground and then got his neck stretched, just as he should have.

Therefore, the common claim that there were "no WMDs found in Iraq" is a lie, plain and simple.

[mistermack]

I don't think you understand the word weapon.

Especially, weapon of mass destruction.

A bullet is not a weapon. Even if it's in good condition and ready to fire.
And an old soggy corroded bullet with no gun to fire it is certainly not a weapon.

You need to start again, from the beginning.

[pErvinalia]

why did they allegedly cover it up?

Oh, and Israel is in FAR more violations of UN resolutions.

[Hermit]

There were chemical WMDs in Iraq.

With which part of "They needed something to say that after Sept. 11 Saddam used chemical rounds,” Mr. Lampier said. “And all of this was from the pre-1991 era" do you have a comprehension problem?

The stuff that was found turned out to be useless and abandoned shit "manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them."

But keep blabbering on. Fact is that President George W. Bush that in February 2004 created the Iraq Intelligence Commission, which concluded in March 2005 that the judgements of the U.S. intelligence community about the continued existence of weapons of mass destruction and an associated military program were wrong.

Then again Dumbleya might be a crypto commie, aye? Ya never know.

[tattuchu]

why did they allegedly cover it up?

You'd think they woulda been jumping for joy at being vindicated. Only it didn't fit their narrative. So Karl Rove told everybody to shut up about it.

[Seth]

I don't think you understand the word weapon.

Especially, weapon of mass destruction.

A bullet is not a weapon. Even if it's in good condition and ready to fire.
And an old soggy corroded bullet with no gun to fire it is certainly not a weapon.

You need to start again, from the beginning.

The WMD involved is the Sarin or Mustard Gas contained inside the projectile, not the projectile itself, which is merely the delivery system. It's child's play to rig a Sarin-filled artillery shell to explode and release the WMD without a tube to fire it through. Just ask all the US soldiers killed by IEDs manufactured from artillery shells in Iraq and Afghanistan.

For more information, see the movie "The Hurt Locker" and imagine those munitions filled with Sarin and its effect on the surrounding area if detonated or merely drilled open to release the active agent.

Now STFU until you understand what you clearly don't understand.

[Seth]

why did they allegedly cover it up?

Oh, and Israel is in FAR more violations of UN resolutions.

Red herring fallacy

[pErvinalia]

No, it's simply pointing out the failure in your argument.

[Seth]

There were chemical WMDs in Iraq.

With which part of "They needed something to say that after Sept. 11 Saddam used chemical rounds,” Mr. Lampier said. “And all of this was from the pre-1991 era" do you have a comprehension problem?

The stuff that was found turned out to be useless and abandoned shit "manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them."

But keep blabbering on. Fact is that President George W. Bush that in February 2004 created the Iraq Intelligence Commission, which concluded in March 2005 that the judgements of the U.S. intelligence community about the continued existence of weapons of mass destruction and an associated military program were wrong.

Then again Dumbleya might be a crypto commie, aye? Ya never know.

Facts: WMDs were used by Saddam against his own people. WMDs were found in Iraq. Saddam posed a threat of using WMDs elsewhere that could not be tolerated by the Coalition. Saddam refused to allow WMD inspections by the UN and played a shell-game with WMDs during carefully orchestrated "inspections" during which WMDs and associated equipment were moved from the place to be inspected even as the UN inspectors were enroute to the facility in a carefully controlled and diverted convoy, as shown by satellite surveillance. Saddam violated UN resolutions 14 times in 12 years and therefore violated the terms of the cease-fire, which triggered resumption of hostilities by the Coalition, which found evidence of WMDs in Iraq which had been denied by Saddam. Saddam's own Vice Air Marshal has stated on the record that he supervised transport of functional WMD delivery systems from Iraq to Syria under the guise of earthquake relief. QED.

Whatever your opinion is makes no difference and is of no interest. Saddam was properly deposed pursuant to the international rules of war.

[Seth]

No, it's simply pointing out the failure in your argument.

Sadly, your finger is in your own eye because there is no failure in my argument. Facts are facts no matter how much you try to deny them.

[Hermit]

Facts:

Oliver Darcy tried to twist an article by C. J. Chivers into the opposite of what it actually said. By judicious quote mining Darcy tried to insinuate that significant amounts of active weapons of mass destruction were found, and that this was kept secret, although Chivers quite explicit reported the opposite: "The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West." And that was the reason the whole affair was swept under the carpet.

[Seth]

Facts:

Oliver Darcy tried to twist an article by C. J. Chivers into the opposite of what it actually said. By judicious quote mining Darcy tried to insinuate that significant amounts of active weapons of mass destruction were found, and that this was kept secret, although Chivers quite explicit reported the opposite: "The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West." And that was the reason the whole affair was swept under the carpet.

Doesn't matter. WMDs in Iraq confirmed, as if there was ever any question. All the leftie Bush-hating pundits have left is lame arguments that the WMDs found were unserviceable, which is not true. Nor will they even acknowledge the first-hand reports of Saddam's Vice Air Marshal of the movement of vast stores of serviceable WMD munitions to Syria, much less acknowledge that Saddam did everything possible to convince everyone that he did have active WMD programs operating.

QED.