Why do governments prohibit drugs?

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Hermit
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Re: Why do governments prohibit drugs?

Post by Hermit » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:53 am

mistermack wrote:it's false to pretend that there is no cost to legalising drugs.
Do you even read anything on the issue? The cost of legalising drugs is manifestly massively lower than the cost of keeping them illegal. Governments have recognised this when they have made alcohol an illegal drug in various countries and quickly reversed the failed policies. Why has this not happened with other drugs that they have declared illegal? Could there possibly be ulterior motives behind their failure to do so? Hint: President Richard Nixon's motivation for declaring the war on drugs. It was racism.
"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it."

- John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

"[Nixon] emphasized that you have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks" Haldeman, his Chief of Staff wrote, "The key is to devise a system that recognizes this while not appearing to."

- See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2012/ ... FmFZO.dpuf
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Why do governments prohibit drugs?

Post by mistermack » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:07 pm

Hermit wrote:
mistermack wrote:it's false to pretend that there is no cost to legalising drugs.
Do you even read anything on the issue? The cost of legalising drugs is manifestly massively lower than the cost of keeping them illegal. Governments have recognised this when they have made alcohol an illegal drug in various countries and quickly reversed the failed policies. Why has this not happened with other drugs that they have declared illegal? Could there possibly be ulterior motives behind their failure to do so? Hint: President Richard Nixon's motivation for declaring the war on drugs. It was racism.
"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it."

- John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

"[Nixon] emphasized that you have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks" Haldeman, his Chief of Staff wrote, "The key is to devise a system that recognizes this while not appearing to."

- See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2012/ ... FmFZO.dpuf
When I wrote cost, I wasn't referring to money.
But of course, social damage does have a huge financial cost, but it's hard to quantify, because it happens over a long timescale, and it isn't always easy to identify individual culprits.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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Re: Why do governments prohibit drugs?

Post by Hermit » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:10 pm

mistermack wrote:When I wrote cost, I wasn't referring to money.
The non-monetary cost of criminalising drugs is obviously greater than the cost of legalising their use. And how could you separate one from the other anyway? Half of the US prison population is incarcerated for drug use. What do you think that does to their families? Money does not buy happiness, for sure, but the lack of it certainly results in mountains of misery. Then there's the stigma of being branded a criminal, the wife of a criminal, the child of a criminal. Also, anyone convicted of a felony in the US will never be allowed to vote again. The poor in general and the poor blacks in particular are the most disenfranchised social strata in that regard. With their criminal record they will also a have tougher time finding employment, let alone reasonably well rewarded work. That too contributes to the misery and unhappiness of their nearest and dearest.

And then there's health. Since Portugal decriminalised drugs, death by overdose decreased, the incidence of HIV positive diagnoses decreased and robberies accompanied by assault decreased. Policing resources could be diverted to problems other than stomping on illegal drug use, and that in turn increased the quality of life.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Why do governments prohibit drugs?

Post by JimC » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:42 pm

Hermit wrote:
mistermack wrote:When I wrote cost, I wasn't referring to money.
The non-monetary cost of criminalising drugs is obviously greater than the cost of legalising their use. And how could you separate one from the other anyway? Half of the US prison population is incarcerated for drug use. What do you think that does to their families? Money does not buy happiness, for sure, but the lack of it certainly results in mountains of misery. Then there's the stigma of being branded a criminal, the wife of a criminal, the child of a criminal. Also, anyone convicted of a felony in the US will never be allowed to vote again. The poor in general and the poor blacks in particular are the most disenfranchised social strata in that regard. With their criminal record they will also a have tougher time finding employment, let alone reasonably well rewarded work. That too contributes to the misery and unhappiness of their nearest and dearest.

And then there's health. Since Portugal decriminalised drugs, death by overdose decreased, the incidence of HIV positive diagnoses decreased and robberies accompanied by assault decreased. Policing resources could be diverted to problems other than stomping on illegal drug use, and that in turn increased the quality of life.
Adding to that is that a major motivation for criminal gangs that are attractive to poor young men involves the vast amounts of money that arise from the illegal drug industry. Legalise and regulate illicit drugs, and you immediately make a major dent in violent crime...
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Re: Why do governments prohibit drugs?

Post by mistermack » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:27 am

JimC wrote:
Hermit wrote:
mistermack wrote:When I wrote cost, I wasn't referring to money.
The non-monetary cost of criminalising drugs is obviously greater than the cost of legalising their use. And how could you separate one from the other anyway? Half of the US prison population is incarcerated for drug use. What do you think that does to their families? Money does not buy happiness, for sure, but the lack of it certainly results in mountains of misery. Then there's the stigma of being branded a criminal, the wife of a criminal, the child of a criminal. Also, anyone convicted of a felony in the US will never be allowed to vote again. The poor in general and the poor blacks in particular are the most disenfranchised social strata in that regard. With their criminal record they will also a have tougher time finding employment, let alone reasonably well rewarded work. That too contributes to the misery and unhappiness of their nearest and dearest.

And then there's health. Since Portugal decriminalised drugs, death by overdose decreased, the incidence of HIV positive diagnoses decreased and robberies accompanied by assault decreased. Policing resources could be diverted to problems other than stomping on illegal drug use, and that in turn increased the quality of life.
Adding to that is that a major motivation for criminal gangs that are attractive to poor young men involves the vast amounts of money that arise from the illegal drug industry. Legalise and regulate illicit drugs, and you immediately make a major dent in violent crime...
In a way, there is an industry there that is providing jobs for people who otherwise would have no hope at all.
Obviously, they are a pretty nasty bunch, but it's still a route for money to flow from the rich to the poor.
When it all becomes legal, it will be the rich making money out of drugs.
The tobacco companies will be in there like a shot.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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