Dutchman returns Holocaust medal after family deaths in Gaza

[Strontium Dog]

Yes, I'm not surprised you hero-worship Hamas. Coupled with the complete misrepresentation of my position, it fits with what I've learned about your personality.

Only surprised you didn't provide some hilariously innocent explanations for why a militant might be living in a house.

[mistermack]

Yes, I'm not surprised you hero-worship Hamas. Coupled with the complete misrepresentation of my position, it fits with what I've learned about your personality.

Only surprised you didn't provide some hilariously innocent explanations for why a militant might be living in a house.

You can't help inventing stuff can you? Where is your evidence that that person was ''living'' in that house?
Nowhere, it's just bollocks.
And you haven't posted any evidence that the person was a militant. Although, according to you and your Israeli friends, I guess everyone in Gaza is a militant.

I wouldn't be surprised at that. There can't be anyone in Gaza who hasn't lost a dear family member to the piles of shit across the border.
I can tell you for nothing, if I lost a family member to the Israelis, I would have just one ambition, and that is to kill one of them. Every time they kill one palestinian, they are creating ten militants.
By now, you'd have to be a saint not to be a ''militant''.

[Strontium Dog]

I suppose your argument is that the Al Qassam Brigades are lying when they claim him as one of their own.

My evidence that he was in the house is that he was found in the rubble of that house. Or maybe he was planted there, like creationists argue that dinosaur bones have been planted in the ground by God.

[mistermack]

I suppose your argument is that the Al Qassam Brigades are lying when they claim him as one of their own.

My evidence that he was in the house is that he was found in the rubble of that house. Or maybe he was planted there, like creationists argue that dinosaur bones have been planted in the ground by God.

You haven't posted any evidence that they claimed him as one of their own.
And you claimed that he was living there, HARBOURED by the family. That's all out of your own ass.
But you're so full of shit, I'm sure that there's more where that came from.

[Strontium Dog]

I posted his Al Qassam Brigades martyr poster. Is there something more definitive that I'm missing?

The PCHR describes the dead militant as a "guest". Would love to know what bizarre definition of guest you're using.

It's hilarious to see these epic justifications for anti-semitism, so, please, continue.

[JimC]

I still think both of you are missing the point. It does seem likely that there was a Hamas militant in the house, but that shouldn't be your argument, mm. The real argument is the sheer brutality of the Israeli response, deliberately killing a bunch of civilians because their intelligence suggested a militant was in the house. Whether they were right or wrong has no bearing on the fact that it was a massively disproportionate response. As I said earlier, it is a very different situation to an attack on an active rocket site...

And mm, I wouldn't let your disgust at Israeli actions morph into support for Hamas. They too are deliberately targeting civilians; the only difference is that they are militarily incompetent. They are vicious Islamic thugs in their own right...

[mistermack]

Jim, I think you're making an unfounded assumption that the Israelis knew or cared who was in the house.
I very much doubt that. They are just blowing people to bits at random, and if afterwards it turns out someone was connected to Hamas, then that's a bonus.
There would be a high incidence of that in Gaza anyway, as Hamas is all they've got.

As far as Hamas targeting civilians goes, I would do the same in their shoes. Like I said, if the Israelis had killed one of my family, I would be targeting them from that moment on.
And Israel has killed countless thousands.

[Strontium Dog]

I still think both of you are missing the point. It does seem likely that there was a Hamas militant in the house, but that shouldn't be your argument, mm. The real argument is the sheer brutality of the Israeli response, deliberately killing a bunch of civilians because their intelligence suggested a militant was in the house. Whether they were right or wrong has no bearing on the fact that it was a massively disproportionate response. As I said earlier, it is a very different situation to an attack on an active rocket site...

I'm not missing that point, I acknowledged it and agreed that it's the real point of contention.

And mm, I wouldn't let your disgust at Israeli actions morph into support for Hamas.

He just writes whatever will provoke a reaction. It's extremely tiresome.

Jim, I think you're making an unfounded assumption that the Israelis knew or cared who was in the house.
I very much doubt that. They are just blowing people to bits at random, and if afterwards it turns out someone was connected to Hamas, then that's a bonus.

Accuses other people of making an unfounded assumption then makes a much more far-fetched claim. Priceless.

As far as Hamas targeting civilians goes, I would do the same in their shoes. Like I said, if the Israelis had killed one of my family, I would be targeting them from that moment on.

Hamas already was targeting civilians. That's why Israel are bombing Gaza. Talk about screwing up cause and effect..

However, good to see more confirmation that you would willingly commit war crimes.

[JimC]

Jim, I think you're making an unfounded assumption that the Israelis knew or cared who was in the house.
I very much doubt that. They are just blowing people to bits at random, and if afterwards it turns out someone was connected to Hamas, then that's a bonus.
There would be a high incidence of that in Gaza anyway, as Hamas is all they've got.

I think that contention is militarily unrealistic. Israel has not got an unlimited number of bombs, shells or missiles. Gaza is too big for random shelling to achieve anything useful in terms of whittling down Hamas. They will use every bit of intelligence they have to target Hamas as effectively as they can. However, I would agree that they do not give a shit how many innocent civilians are killed in the process; in fact, Israel is sending a message to Gaza inhabitants that they will suffer greatly, as long as Hamas keeps firing rockets.

Whether that message works is another matter. As you suggested earlier, it may instead swell the ranks of future Palestinian militants, out of rage and anger.

[mistermack]

Accuses other people of making an unfounded assumption then makes a much more far-fetched claim. Priceless.

How come far-fetched, when the vast majority of palestinians killed have no connection to Hamas?
No ''militant'' being ''harboured'' ? The pattern is perfectly clear. They are bound to hit Hamas members now and then, if they kill enough innocents.

You have an unbelieveable mindset. You seem to have soaked up every bit of propaganda that you've ever been fed. What the fuck are you doing on rationalia, if you are so incredibly gullible?

[mistermack]

Jim, I think you're making an unfounded assumption that the Israelis knew or cared who was in the house.
I very much doubt that. They are just blowing people to bits at random, and if afterwards it turns out someone was connected to Hamas, then that's a bonus.
There would be a high incidence of that in Gaza anyway, as Hamas is all they've got.

I think that contention is militarily unrealistic. Israel has not got an unlimited number of bombs, shells or missiles. Gaza is too big for random shelling to achieve anything useful in terms of whittling down Hamas. They will use every bit of intelligence they have to target Hamas as effectively as they can. However, I would agree that they do not give a shit how many innocent civilians are killed in the process; in fact, Israel is sending a message to Gaza inhabitants that they will suffer greatly, as long as Hamas keeps firing rockets.

Whether that message works is another matter. As you suggested earlier, it may instead swell the ranks of future Palestinian militants, out of rage and anger.

Yes of course they will target Hamas when they can. But that's nowhere near as often as you might think.
They work in reverse. Every time they kill a Hamas member, they claim that they targeted them.
But it's rarely true. They just like the wold to think that way.
If you keep killing people at random, some of them will have Hamas connections. Then you claim that you targeted them, and that the innocents got killed by accident.
It's completely the other way around. They kill lots of innocents, and by the law of averages, some Hamas get killed by ''accident''.

[pErvinalia]

Yes, I'm not surprised you hero-worship Hamas. Coupled with the complete misrepresentation of my position, it fits with what I've learned about your personality.

Only surprised you didn't provide some hilariously innocent explanations for why a militant might be living in a house.

Are you capable of looking at the idiotic shit you write objectively?? You've made a claim, and haven't backed it up. Back it up or go back to your troll home.

[pErvinalia]

I suppose your argument is that the Al Qassam Brigades are lying when they claim him as one of their own.

My evidence that he was in the house is that he was found in the rubble of that house. Or maybe he was planted there, like creationists argue that dinosaur bones have been planted in the ground by God.

You claimed that the family were "harbouring" him, and that they were fair game because of that. This is classic SD evasion. You have absolutely no awareness of what the words you say mean. You do this post after post after post. For years. You'd think you'd finally learn. In my mind, this is sort of shit is clear evidence you are either a troll or incredibly stupid. Or both (most likely).

[pErvinalia]

And mm, I wouldn't let your disgust at Israeli actions morph into support for Hamas. They too are deliberately targeting civilians; the only difference is that they are militarily incompetent. They are vicious Islamic thugs in their own right...

They don't target anyone. Their weapons aren't sophisticated enough for fine targeting. They don't kidnap citizens. Only military.

[JimC]

And mm, I wouldn't let your disgust at Israeli actions morph into support for Hamas. They too are deliberately targeting civilians; the only difference is that they are militarily incompetent. They are vicious Islamic thugs in their own right...

They don't target anyone. Their weapons aren't sophisticated enough for fine targeting. They don't kidnap citizens. Only military.

OK, let's just say that they devoutly hope that every rocket they fire kills as many Israelis as possible, and that will almost always be Israeli civilians, given where they fire them. When they are fighting an Israeli military incursion, that is obviously a different matter...