Where's Red Celt when you want a laugh!?

[John_fi_Skye]

All the polls suggest the Scots are going to chicken out.

Of course they will hate the English even more after they decide to stay part of this great nation....*cough*

The partisans of independence sure will be pissed off to no end.

Plenty of us will just be pissed off at the craven cowardice of too many of our compatriots. Most of us don't hate the English. We'll just be frustrated for a generation by our own failure to seize the opportunity. But it'll be typical in one sense - typical of our alleged "democracy": even if it's 51-49 or closer, lots of us will just have to put up with getting what we didn't vote for. It's been like that for me in Scotland my whole life.

But opinion polls have been wrong before. I'll not give up hope yet.

[ronmcd]

All the polls suggest the Scots are going to chicken out.

Of course they will hate the English even more after they decide to stay part of this great nation....*cough*

The partisans of independence sure will be pissed off to no end.

Plenty of us will just be pissed off at the craven cowardice of too many of our compatriots. Most of us don't hate the English. We'll just be frustrated for a generation by our own failure to seize the opportunity. But it'll be typical in one sense - typical of our alleged "democracy": even if it's 51-49 or closer, lots of us will just have to put up with getting what we didn't vote for. It's been like that for me in Scotland my whole life.

But opinion polls have been wrong before. I'll not give up hope yet.

I think it's worth pointing out for Svartalf and others that the bitterness and anger currently comes from the Better Together side and it's supporters (and some politicians, activists, etc), not those supporting Yes. So I imagine if there were to be recriminations (there won't be) it would be more likely from the no side if yes won.

But there won't be.

And my personal prediction is still a yes win. The large numbers of voters who don't usually vote, but who will in the referendum, people who don't show up on polls. They will be critical. But more than that, I think many of the undecideds, and some who say no currently, will go to the polls on the day and stand and look at the paper and the economic £500 this way or £1000 that way, those arguments will be less important. They will need to decide whether Scotland should go from having partial responsibility, to full responsibility. And I suspect many will not be able to say no.

55-60% yes vote, I suspect.

But I'm normally wrong. About most things.

[Rum]

I predict 55 - 60% no..but I'm not always right either.

You do realise don't you that if YES wins the rest of the UK is doomed to Conservative rule for decades to come!

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[John_fi_Skye]

From our angle, you've just made absolutely explicit the very strongest reason for voting Yes. I'm very sorry for those people in England whose votes will never, ever count for anything. By voting Labour within the Union for many years, I've honestly done the best I could for you. But the tories have swamped us every time (including when the "Labour" Party got in), and now it's time to cut adrift and leave you to seek your own salvation, while we seek ours in a different direction.

[Rum]

Except of course it isn't going to happen.

[Clinton Huxley]

The bitterness and anger comes from the No side? Yeah, it's all gentility and love from the Yessers. In some alternate universe.

[Rum]

I suspect they are both as bad as each other, depending on which web sites or papers one reads, but it is a lesson in the divisiveness and fragmentation that nationalism of any sort can engender.

[Svartalf]

Breizh dizhual (Free Brittany)

[John_fi_Skye]

Except of course it isn't going to happen.

Sadly, I fear you may turn out to be right.

[John_fi_Skye]

The bitterness and anger comes from the No side? Yeah, it's all gentility and love from the Yessers. In some alternate universe.

There are nutcases on both sides. But (and I accept I am indeed on the Yes side, and therefore biased) it seems to me that the Yes arguments are more about what COULD happen, while the No arguments are more about what allegedly CAN'T.

And I'm an optimist by nature.

[John_fi_Skye]

Breizh dizhual (Free Brittany)

Bro Goz Ma Zadou!

[Svartalf]

Then, going farther on the genealogical tree, I might be more interested in Ireland and Scotland (though those come from a different Branch than my Breton ancestry)...
But still Breizh Atao, Eirinn go bràgh, and whatever slogan will fit Alba... Saoirse le-hAlba?

[John_fi_Skye]

Then, going farther on the genealogical tree, I might be more interested in Ireland and Scotland (though those come from a different Branch than my Breton ancestry)...
But still Breizh Atao, Eirinn go bràgh, and whatever slogan will fit Alba... Saoirse le-hAlba?

Alba Shaor! Alba gu bràth!

[Svartalf]

Alba gu Bràth? I didna ken ye for a fellow jacobite.

[ronmcd]

I predict 55 - 60% no..but I'm not always right either.

You do realise don't you that if YES wins the rest of the UK is doomed to Conservative rule for decades to come!

As John said, it can't really be the responsibility of Scottish voters to prevent a Tory government for England (&Wales &NI). But it's also very rare that it has ever made a difference what Scotland votes. When Labour have been in government they have done so by winning in England. It won't make much difference in numbers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27129813

Analysis shows that most general election results would have been the same, albeit with changed majorities. In recent times, Margaret Thatcher's Conservatives would have enjoyed a massive 174-seat majority in 1983, bigger even than the 144-seat majority they achieved. In 1992, Tory John Major would have had a 71-seat majority, as opposed to the 21-seat majority which occurred. And, without Scotland, Tony Blair's Labour majority would have been cut from 179 to 137 seats in 1997, from 167 to 127 seats in 2001, and from 66 to 43 seats in 2005.

2010 would have been a Tory majority, but rarely other results would have been any different.

What will I think make a difference, and this is the Billy Brag argument and one of the reasons he supports Scottish Independence, is a left of centre Scotland showing that there is an alternative to austerity and the red/blue/yellow tory consensus.