Where's Red Celt when you want a laugh!?

[JimC]

Good to hear from you again, John!

[John_fi_Skye]

Hiya Jim. (Yes, I've still been doing plenty of that .)

[mistermack]

Personally, I've just been awfy busy, but I've been keeping an eye on some freds - even though my being busy and my being a slow typist precluded my participating.

I'm voting YES. For many years, I voted Labour with a shake of the head, because they were always so far to the right. Then, they moved even further to the right, and now you couldnae slip a Rizla paper between Millipede and Camoron (or between either of them and Cleggbite.) So, I have come to the view that the only way I have any chance of living in a leftly-inclined country is if the bit of land I live in pushes off from our enormous and right-voting southern neighbour. That's it. No rampant nationalism (though I'm proud of Scottish culture and insane about Scottish fitba), no hatred of the English. An entirely rational desire not to be forever governed by tories like the aforementioned three posh boys.

You know your own country. But I have a feeling that it won't stay so left-wing when it has to raise it's own money, from taxes, and borrow, on the markets, and budget for the future.
At the moment, the Scottish Govt. can be as left as they like, because all the ills can be blamed on Westminster, and all the credit for money spent goes to the Scottish Govt.
If you vote yes, all the future dissatisfaction will drop on the heads of the Scottish Govt.
The days of being to the left of everybody will be over.

Nationalists are naturally right-wing anyway. The leftish stance is just for electoral purposes, to get the vote won.

[DaveDodo007]

We reserve dramaz for sexual affairs, politics and comedies, which happens to generally be more or less the same anyway... I suspect that many of the people that fled Ratz over recent months and years did so due to an overdose of dramaz, so I try to remain composed and not cause more flights, I'd hate to have to leave because there was nobody interesting left.

I have never understood the whole leaving because somebody disagrees with me thing. Surely debates are the very lifeblood of any forum as I would die of boredom if I lived in an echo chamber. The Wright brothers used to have blood curdling arguments until late at night and in the morning they would argue the exact opposite view with the same vigor. I find this gives you a unique view of any position you hold. Though Internet disagreements have never been about finding the truth as it's all about winning and fuck reality.

[Svartalf]

Johnn will I have to throw quotes from 'John Anderson my Jo" to make you remain around?

[mistermack]

Hiya John.
Haven't you fed those midges yet? They must be like the Irish ones.

The English midges don't bite. I went for a walk down by the canal last night, as it was getting dusky, and the midges were rising up in clouds.
In Ireland, you would have ended up running screaming like a loony, trying to get away from them.
But those English midges didn't bite once. One flew in my eye, but I'm sure she didn't mean it.

No netting needed here.

[ronmcd]

I'm voting YES. For many years, I voted Labour with a shake of the head, because they were always so far to the right. Then, they moved even further to the right, and now you couldnae slip a Rizla paper between Millipede and Camoron (or between either of them and Cleggbite.) So, I have come to the view that the only way I have any chance of living in a leftly-inclined country is if the bit of land I live in pushes off from our enormous and right-voting southern neighbour. That's it. No rampant nationalism (though I'm proud of Scottish culture and insane about Scottish fitba), no hatred of the English. An entirely rational desire not to be forever governed by tories like the aforementioned three posh boys.

In addition, I'd add that as well as wanting to live in a left of centre country (when most vote that way) I also think the serious problems that Scotland has can't be left to Westminster. The devolved parliament can do so much, but it's control over the economy and what *all* the money is spent on that *could* make the difference.

[ronmcd]

Personally, I've just been awfy busy, but I've been keeping an eye on some freds - even though my being busy and my being a slow typist precluded my participating.

I'm voting YES. For many years, I voted Labour with a shake of the head, because they were always so far to the right. Then, they moved even further to the right, and now you couldnae slip a Rizla paper between Millipede and Camoron (or between either of them and Cleggbite.) So, I have come to the view that the only way I have any chance of living in a leftly-inclined country is if the bit of land I live in pushes off from our enormous and right-voting southern neighbour. That's it. No rampant nationalism (though I'm proud of Scottish culture and insane about Scottish fitba), no hatred of the English. An entirely rational desire not to be forever governed by tories like the aforementioned three posh boys.

You know your own country. But I have a feeling that it won't stay so left-wing when it has to raise it's own money, from taxes, and borrow, on the markets, and budget for the future.
At the moment, the Scottish Govt. can be as left as they like, because all the ills can be blamed on Westminster, and all the credit for money spent goes to the Scottish Govt.
If you vote yes, all the future dissatisfaction will drop on the heads of the Scottish Govt.
The days of being to the left of everybody will be over.

Nationalists are naturally right-wing anyway. The leftish stance is just for electoral purposes, to get the vote won.

Even if that were true, if the referendum is won for yes, it won't be the "nationalists" that did it. SNP "nationalists" are only say 25% of the population, the people who will decide the vote are the ordinary Labour voters. If enough of them think that the best thing for Scotland is control (not nationalism) then yes will win.

[mistermack]

Nationalists are naturally right-wing anyway. The leftish stance is just for electoral purposes, to get the vote won.

Even if that were true, if the referendum is won for yes, it won't be the "nationalists" that did it. SNP "nationalists" are only say 25% of the population, the people who will decide the vote are the ordinary Labour voters. If enough of them think that the best thing for Scotland is control (not nationalism) then yes will win.

Yes it will most certainly definitely be he nationalists wot did it.
It will be their arguments and PROMISES and persuasion that did it.

Whether it was all true, remains to be seen. But don't try to shift the blame to the voters, for believing Alex's lies. All that they would be guilty of, is being too trusting.

[ronmcd]

Nationalists are naturally right-wing anyway. The leftish stance is just for electoral purposes, to get the vote won.

Even if that were true, if the referendum is won for yes, it won't be the "nationalists" that did it. SNP "nationalists" are only say 25% of the population, the people who will decide the vote are the ordinary Labour voters. If enough of them think that the best thing for Scotland is control (not nationalism) then yes will win.

Yes it will most certainly definitely be he nationalists wot did it.
It will be their arguments and PROMISES and persuasion that did it.

Whether it was all true, remains to be seen. But don't try to shift the blame to the voters, for believing Alex's lies. All that they would be guilty of, is being too trusting.

You don't like democracy much, do you. Or voters. You don't get to decide voters were duped, if it doesn't go your way.

Those Labour voters I talked about? They've been shafted, repeatedly, by their party, waiting so long for them to come back to the policies they actually desperately want Labour to propose. And the SNP has stolen their clothes.

If those key voters do vote for independence, it won't be a vote for Salmond, or even a vote because of the nationalists. It will be a vote to get a Labour - proper labour - government in full control of Scotland.

Terrifies the shit out of Milibland, that.

[John_fi_Skye]

Johnn will I have to throw quotes from 'John Anderson my Jo" to make you remain around?

Hiya, Svarty. Ah'm gey glaid tae see ye're ettlin yit tae spik a wheen Scots - weel dune, mon!

[John_fi_Skye]

Personally, I've just been awfy busy, but I've been keeping an eye on some freds - even though my being busy and my being a slow typist precluded my participating.

I'm voting YES. For many years, I voted Labour with a shake of the head, because they were always so far to the right. Then, they moved even further to the right, and now you couldnae slip a Rizla paper between Millipede and Camoron (or between either of them and Cleggbite.) So, I have come to the view that the only way I have any chance of living in a leftly-inclined country is if the bit of land I live in pushes off from our enormous and right-voting southern neighbour. That's it. No rampant nationalism (though I'm proud of Scottish culture and insane about Scottish fitba), no hatred of the English. An entirely rational desire not to be forever governed by tories like the aforementioned three posh boys.

You know your own country. But I have a feeling that it won't stay so left-wing when it has to raise it's own money, from taxes, and borrow, on the markets, and budget for the future.
At the moment, the Scottish Govt. can be as left as they like, because all the ills can be blamed on Westminster, and all the credit for money spent goes to the Scottish Govt.
If you vote yes, all the future dissatisfaction will drop on the heads of the Scottish Govt.
The days of being to the left of everybody will be over.

Nationalists are naturally right-wing anyway. The leftish stance is just for electoral purposes, to get the vote won.

I'm old enough to remember the situation before we had a Holyrood parliament. What I said stood then, and stands now.

[mistermack]

I'm old enough to remember the situation before we had a Holyrood parliament. What I said stood then, and stands now.

Oh well, we'll see just how left-of-centre Scotland stays, once it has to run it's own budget.

It's a bit like the difference between getting pocket money from your dad, and getting your first job, and paying the rent on a place of your own.
You have to grow up fast, and watch what you spend.

[John_fi_Skye]

Adults in general prefer not to continue getting pocket money from their dad throughout their whole life. They prefer to take control, and take their chances. That's all I want for Scotland.

And the reason I have always preferred the left of politics is that in my experience the policies there are (even just a tiny wee bit) closer to the Altruism end of the spectrum between Altruism and Materialism. I see nothing but greed in the City of London and in much of (especially southern) English politics, whereas in Scotland there has always seemed to me to be a set of priorities that are a wee bit closer to what I'd choose for everybody if I were totalitarian leader myself.

[Svartalf]

Personally, I've just been awfy busy, but I've been keeping an eye on some freds - even though my being busy and my being a slow typist precluded my participating.

I'm voting YES. For many years, I voted Labour with a shake of the head, because they were always so far to the right. Then, they moved even further to the right, and now you couldnae slip a Rizla paper between Millipede and Camoron (or between either of them and Cleggbite.) So, I have come to the view that the only way I have any chance of living in a leftly-inclined country is if the bit of land I live in pushes off from our enormous and right-voting southern neighbour. That's it. No rampant nationalism (though I'm proud of Scottish culture and insane about Scottish fitba), no hatred of the English. An entirely rational desire not to be forever governed by tories like the aforementioned three posh boys.

You know your own country. But I have a feeling that it won't stay so left-wing when it has to raise it's own money, from taxes, and borrow, on the markets, and budget for the future.
At the moment, the Scottish Govt. can be as left as they like, because all the ills can be blamed on Westminster, and all the credit for money spent goes to the Scottish Govt.
If you vote yes, all the future dissatisfaction will drop on the heads of the Scottish Govt.
The days of being to the left of everybody will be over.

Nationalists are naturally right-wing anyway. The leftish stance is just for electoral purposes, to get the vote won.

I'm old enough to remember the situation before we had a Holyrood parliament. What I said stood then, and stands now.

Be ye carefu' what ye be askin' fer, ye micht jist be aboot tae be gitting it, and then ye 'll be a saery aul' git for all that ye be nary longer a british une...