And that's WHY we carry them...

[mistermack]

He includes any injury caused by a firearm, whether intentional or accidental, and he fails to account for either criminal violence or criminals who tend to get shot more than once.

But it's irrelevant. Doesn't matter if a million people a year get shot, that just means that a million people needed to be armed and trained so they might have the chance to not get shot and to end their attacker.

God that's stoopid, even for Seth.
The more people carry bang bangs, the more will get shot accidentally. Fact.

And that includes '' Oh, sorry, I thought you were a mugger''.

But of course, the object with Seth is the carrying of bang bangs, not anybody's safety.

Personally, what I value most, is the security of knowing that dickhead bang bang freaks are NOT carrying their toys around me. I like that a lot.

[NuclMan]

BG.... Why do you care about guns in the US so much?? American gun culture is (thankfully) one of the few things that the US isn't exporting to the rest of the world. Who cares what they do to themselves??

[pErvinalia]

Wot?

[laklak]

I understand your point, BG, but when certain cultural or socio-economic groups are included in the total figures it gives a highly distorted picture of the actual risk profiles for the vast majority of people. The chances of being shot, for anyone except inner city black males, is far, far less then 1 in 50. As I said, it would be like including the sexual violence statistics for Papua New Guinea with those of Australia or New Zealand and claiming that a woman in Christchurch would almost certainly be raped within her lifetime. There is almost as much difference in the laws between two states as there are between different countries. It is impossible to view the United States as a monolithic entity.

[Hermit]

Good for you, Laklak, for not being an Afro-American living in the southern part of Chicago, or whatever. I too feel lucky for being a Caucasian who lives in a small town in South Australia rather than an Aborigine in Darwin. Just the same it's a valid thing to point out national statistics and differences between them.

[laklak]

There are any number of groups I'm quite glad not to be part of. A teenaged girl in Northern Nigeria, for example, or a Nepalese guy who needs to sell his kidney to survive, to say nothing of a Kurdish Nationalist under Saddam. Were I a Presbyterian I'd figure I was one of The Elect, since the chances of my being born into this life with all it's advantages are quite small from a global perspective. But I can't claim any credit, it's just the luck of the draw. I pulled trip Kings with a chance at a full house, others got a 9 high fuck-all.

[MrJonno]

There are any number of groups I'm quite glad not to be part of. A teenaged girl in Northern Nigeria, for example, or a Nepalese guy who needs to sell his kidney to survive, to say nothing of a Kurdish Nationalist under Saddam. Were I a Presbyterian I'd figure I was one of The Elect, since the chances of my being born into this life with all it's advantages are quite small from a global perspective. But I can't claim any credit, it's just the luck of the draw. I pulled trip Kings with a chance at a full house, others got a 9 high fuck-all.

The I'm safe fuck everyone else is at least honest, but presumably you have a fair chance of not being around everyone else, most of us don't.

You can be a billionaire in the UK and I still guarantee you will be in walking distance of poverty wherever you live

[Seth]

He includes any injury caused by a firearm, whether intentional or accidental, and he fails to account for either criminal violence or criminals who tend to get shot more than once.

But it's irrelevant. Doesn't matter if a million people a year get shot, that just means that a million people needed to be armed and trained so they might have the chance to not get shot and to end their attacker.

God that's stoopid, even for Seth.
The more people carry bang bangs, the more will get shot accidentally. Fact.

Demonstrably not true. The number of guns in the US had increased radically and yet the number of gun accidents CONTINUES to decline, thanks largely to the NRA's gun safety education projects.

And that includes '' Oh, sorry, I thought you were a mugger''.

I challenge you to cite the statistics for such shootings.

But of course, the object with Seth is the carrying of bang bangs, not anybody's safety.

Wrong.

Personally, what I value most, is the security of knowing that dickhead bang bang freaks are NOT carrying their toys around me. I like that a lot.

But you don't know that. You never can know that. That's why they are called "concealed weapons." Five people standing right next to you on the bus could be packing heat and you'd never know it.

And therein lies the point, which swooshed right over your head.

[laklak]

The I'm safe fuck everyone else is at least honest, but presumably you have a fair chance of not being around everyone else, most of us don't.

You can be a billionaire in the UK and I still guarantee you will be in walking distance of poverty wherever you live

What other option is there, honestly? I'm not going to end poverty or racial discrimination or sexism or world hunger. I can vote for people who claim to support policies to those ends, but when they get into office they're just as pompous, out of touch and self-absorbed as whoever was in office before. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. At some point you look at the world and say 'fuck it, nowt I can do, best take care of me and mine as best I can". If I left it all to teh gummint I'd be eating surplus cheese and living out of my truck. Thanks, but I'll pass.

I choose to be honest about it, even if all that gets me is vituperation from both the left and the right. Sure, I feel sorry for all those less fortunate than me, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to give up what I've got and sink to that level in the name of some ill-defined and sophomoric ideal of "equality".

[MrJonno]

The point is I get on the bus every day with at least some people who are basically scum, (I hate the underclass every bit as much as any libertarian) that's unavoidable. I would far rather no one had a gun on that bus then we both had one and I'm macho enough to shoot them first.

The underclass are my problem not because I'm a nice person and all caring, but because I share my life them and can't just clear of to some gated community

[laklak]

There is that. Population density is, IMO, the number one problem. Even here in the 'burbs. When I'm up in the mountains it's a different story, and as soon as I get rid of the current mountain house and get 30 acres in the middle of nowhere the better. Then I can sell this house and get one on Dog Island. It will be paradise. I'll go to Dog during the winter, when there are only 7 people on the whole island, or about 2 people per square mile. Sounds good to me. I figure 30 acres on top of some mountain will be remote enough for the summer.

[Clinton Huxley]

There is that. Population density is, IMO, the number one problem. Even here in the 'burbs. When I'm up in the mountains it's a different story, and as soon as I get rid of the current mountain house and get 30 acres in the middle of nowhere the better. Then I can sell this house and get one on Dog Island. It will be paradise. I'll go to Dog during the winter, when there are only 7 people on the whole island, or about 2 people per square mile. Sounds good to me. I figure 30 acres on top of some mountain will be remote enough for the summer.

Room for one more? Apparently the UK population is due to rise by another 10 million in the next 25 years.

[laklak]

Bring your Webley and sword, there's always room for a good infantry officer.

[Tero]

Which brings us to my plan. First ban hand guns and all that shoot more than 20 shots. Then we allow only shotguns and muskets. Then only muskets. We will define arms as those known to the founding fathers. You get muskets snd small cannons. We'll set a limit to cannon ball and other ammo. Plus yearly gun powder and lead quota. You have to melt your own lead balls.

[MrJonno]

There is that. Population density is, IMO, the number one problem. Even here in the 'burbs. When I'm up in the mountains it's a different story, and as soon as I get rid of the current mountain house and get 30 acres in the middle of nowhere the better. Then I can sell this house and get one on Dog Island. It will be paradise. I'll go to Dog during the winter, when there are only 7 people on the whole island, or about 2 people per square mile. Sounds good to me. I figure 30 acres on top of some mountain will be remote enough for the summer.

The very word 'acre' just is unimaginable to me, I think of a few 10's of square of feet, is a room big enough to lie down across down (half the bedrooms I've had you couldn't lie down in both directions) but in the end of the day I want museums, theatre, university lectures,trains, buses. I want a supermarket within walking distance and if that means I can't carry anti-underclass weaponry then what can you do