Rolf 'other' Harris named and shamed.

[pErvinalia]

I really don't understand why anyone would want to be accidentally offensive to someone, deliberately offensive no problems I do that all the time some people need to be offended.

If I say christianity is a sadomasochistic death cult and a christian isnt offended by that then I'm not trying hard enough, however if I say the Jap's make good cars and the Japanese find that offensive (as apparently Jap is an offensive term) I don't really care why someone finds that offensive I will change my language not because I have too but because its the polite thing to do.

What the correct term to use when describing the height adult male that is 3 foot 5, dwarf, midget, small person, some medical condition I don't know?, if they want to let me know I will use it.

That's all political correctness is, an aid to not accidentally insulting someone

Yep, and MM has shown that he would rather be a nasty belligerent than a decent human being.

[pErvinalia]

I really don't understand why anyone would want to be accidentally offensive to someone, deliberately offensive no problems I do that all the time some people need to be offended.

When people CHOOSE to be offended by a word, that was previously not offensive, as far as I'm concerned, that's their problem.
A few years ago, the polite word for a homosexual person was homosexual. Then people deliberately launched the word gay. It won't be long, before homosexual will be claimed to be offensive.
People already give you a funny look, if you say it, instead of gay. Funny thing is, kids are starting to use gay as a general insult. How long will it be, before someone thinks up a new substitute, and calling someone gay becomes a recognised insult?

Then of course, you get black people in the US calling each other nigger. That's ok, but white people can't. So it's not a racist word, it's a racist combination, of the word, and who says it.

You apparently have no idea what bigotry actually is. It's not what YOU find reasonable or should or shouldn't be offensive. It's what the minority (in terms of power) find offensive. Essentially you'd rather be a prick than considerate of the feelings and life situation of someone who is oppressed.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

MRI brain scans have shown that the same parts of the brain are triggered by hurtful words as actual physical pain. Psychological studies have shown similar avoidance behaviours to both mental and physical pain. Words can hurt us. Anyone that has been subject to bullying or prejudice can tell you that.

Anyone that claims otherwise either lacks empathy, or simply can't prevent their mouth from ejecting shit.

[pErvinalia]

MRI brain scans have shown that the same parts of the brain are triggered by hurtful words as actual physical pain.

Yep. And even if that wasn't true (which it is), we live a psychological life, and attacks on that life do have an affect on people as you explain below.

Psychological studies have shown similar avoidance behaviours to both mental and physical pain. Words can hurt us. Anyone that has been subject to bullying or prejudice can tell you that.

Anyone that claims otherwise either lacks empathy, or simply can't prevent their mouth from ejecting shit.

[cronus]

Words can hurt if they are intended to, otherwise you find it'll be ignorance from the listener that is causing self-inflicted pain on the brain. Does someone on the autistic spectrum who may come out with 'inappropriate comments' repeatedly even though causing great offence intend it? Are you going to call them a racist because of their illness?

PS The US is a special case where everything must be polite and positive and nice with a huge big smile, 'cause they give shooters out in cereal packets.

[pErvinalia]

Ok, so you're saying MM has autism.

Great argument there.

[pErvinalia]

By the way, it's not only the words themselves, it's the culture they contribute to and the actions that flow forth from that culture. Asserting that words are "just vibrations in the air" is idiotic in the extreme in the context of how speech contributes to the structure of society.

[cronus]

Yeah, but MM isn't part of Australian culture, why should he change? And the spectrum is wide, maybe he's caught the whip of the tail....don't do diagnosis, online.

[pErvinalia]

So what if he's not part of Australian culture? That doesn't mean he can't add to it via his ignorant ramblings right into the homes of Australians via the net. We live in a globalised world, and the western countries share a cultural liberalism that is common across all of them. Saying he's not Australian is not a valid rebuttal. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter where in the world it happens.

[cronus]

So what if he's not part of Australian culture? That doesn't mean he can't add to it via his ignorant ramblings right into the homes of Australians via the net. We live in a globalised world, and the western countries share a cultural liberalism that is common across all of them. Saying he's not Australian is not a valid rebuttal. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter where in the world it happens.

Like I say it's intentionality, it's context makes the meaning, and to his credit he did point out things need doing.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, I don't think he's an overly racists person. Just an annoying old cunt.

But he's been told it's offensive before, and as Jonno queries - why would anyone want to be purposely racist? (in that moment).

[cronus]

Yeah, I don't think he's an overly racists person. Just an annoying old cunt.

But he's been told it's offensive before, and as Jonno queries - why would anyone want to be purposely racist? (in that moment).

Staying with the knowns and the changing mores of the local neighbourhood are enough for some. It ain't one world out there, yet. Need a smart neutral universal translator to even over the bumps on the road to peace.

[pErvinalia]

I don't know what that salad means.

He needs to stop denigrating a people who have been horribly oppressed since white man turned up in Australia.

[mistermack]

What's imbecilic, is your claim that I implied that it was one thing or the other.

It was implicit in this: "Which is actually worse, people saying abbo, or children being brought up in squalid conditions, with very little chance of advancement?"

I see what's happened here. It's another case of Australians fucking up the English language.
Over here, it's HYPOCRISY when you do one thing, for public effect, and then do the opposite in private. Like caring so deeply about aboriginal rights, you don't like them being referred to as abbos, but doing fuck-all about how their kids are growing up without a future.

But obviously, in Australia, the expression hypocrisy has been taken over by false dichotomy. Perhaps it's because there's so much of it about.

But of course you are always fucking up our language. We gave you aboriginal people. You made it aboriginals. Then abbos. Then back to ....what now? Is it aboriginals again? Or aboriginal people? Or first nation? What's pc right now?

[JimC]

Words can hurt if they are intended to, otherwise you find it'll be ignorance from the listener that is causing self-inflicted pain on the brain. Does someone on the autistic spectrum who may come out with 'inappropriate comments' repeatedly even though causing great offence intend it? Are you going to call them a racist because of their illness?

PS The US is a special case where everything must be polite and positive and nice with a huge big smile, 'cause they give shooters out in cereal packets.

Humans generally have excellent social antennae; most people would pick up on someone with Tourette's syndrome, for example, and discount their words because of lack of intent. To a degree, the same is true for children, and naive foreigners. The latter, however, are expected to quickly learn that the use of certain words is both insulting and harmful. This isn't just political correctness; racist words can be used deliberately, as a verbal lash and as a way of exerting power.

Not that "abbo" was necessarily used in an angry or cruel way in the past; often, it was used unthinkingly, and without intent to hurt. However, in the few occasions where it is used by whites in Australia now, it is used with malice and aforethought to disparage indigenous people.

The original context of this derail, BTW, was mm's use of it to reprise a line from Rolf's "Tie me down" song; I said at the time I saw nothing wrong with historical quoting, as long as mm understands that its current use in a modern context to name indigenous people here is definitely racist.