Iraq is finished.

[Hermit]

The most depressing part is that the last intelligent US foreign policy initiative was the Marshall Plan, and that was implemented 66 years ago.

[mistermack]

George Bush went into Iraq to combat terrorism.

There was no terrorism.

There is now.

What a man !

[Jason]

Mission accomplished

[laklak]

Now we have an excuse to shock-and-awe their heathen asses into smoking rubble then move in and "rebuild" them, complete with MickyD's and Starbucks. For all we know it's working out exactly as planned. What we going to do with all the gangbangers and unemployable uni grads now that we don't have a meat grinder to throw them in?

[MrJonno]

Let them slaughter each other based on a fractionally different interpretation of their chosen sky fairy...

Fuck 'em all...

That would be a fair comment if the West hadn't taken sides from the very birth of these nations, if you put into power (or at least support) an oppressive regime and people rebel to try and create an even worse one then we do have a responsibility.

The Saudia Arabian government is in power because the West support its, they in turn support lots of vile regimes themselves. The Iranian is deeply unpleasant (but not as unpleasant as the Saudi's) however it came to power because the West put in an equally unpleasant Shah regime.

You can be pragmatic and say we support these regimes out of our interest but we can't just deny responsibility for when it goes wrong

[MrJonno]

double post

[mistermack]

It has occurred to me that Obama might be quite loathe to help the Iraq government for hidden reasons.

After all, George Bush got his friends all the lucrative oil contracts for years to come. If Iraq goes tits-up, they might lose their money.

Come on Isis !!!

[DaveDodo007]

Is this about muslims with sunni dispositions trying to kill the shitty ones?

Or is that vice versa?

Lol, I'm stealing this.

[DaveDodo007]

The only thing that would keep that lot in line is sheer terror.

Saddam Hussein was able to keep them in fear of their lives. A democratic law-abiding government doesn't stand a chance.

I said the same thing about 6 years ago on RDF and was called RACIST.

Maybe you fail to realise how fast societies can either progress or regress? That's really a absence of imagination issue.

I think all Islamic states are doomed unless they can find a statesman like Ataturk, who would have to be bullet proof now. Oil money just prolongs the issue.

[mistermack]

The only thing that would keep that lot in line is sheer terror.

Saddam Hussein was able to keep them in fear of their lives. A democratic law-abiding government doesn't stand a chance.

I said the same thing about 6 years ago on RDF and was called RACIST.

Maybe you fail to realise how fast societies can either progress or regress? That's really a absence of imagination issue.

I think all Islamic states are doomed unless they can find a statesman like Ataturk, who would have to be bullet proof now. Oil money just prolongs the issue.

That might be giving Ataturk a little more credit than he deserves. Although he deserves plenty.
But maybe some of the credit should go to the Turkish people, for having an intelligent and civilised attitude to life. As a group, anyway.

Islamic countries aren't all the same.

On the racism question, virtually everything is racist to some people. You can't criticise the values of a culture without some twat calling it racist.

But middle-eastern people aren't much different to anyone else. They are just a product of the current culture.
We in the ''West'' like to forget all the hate and bigotry that we've witnessed from our own ''brothers'' over the years. Like the nazis were aliens, or the loonies in Northern Ireland were just a blip.
Or Serbia and Bosnia never existed.

It's not race, it's history and religion, and discrimination that makes a place ungovernable.
People don't forget, and they pass all the resentment down to their kids.

Iraq didn't learn, and when the yanks put the shias in power, instead of learning, and being inclusive, they went about settling old scores. Which has now produced a whole set of new scores, that ''need'' to be settled.