Skull Cracker Walkies

[MrJonno]

Most people by the time they are 5 realise they can only survive at the whim of others , if people don't do what is required of them sometimes voluntary (like choosing to do a job) or compulsory (paying taxes) you die.

I guess a sociopath's fragile ego's can't except that fact

[Seth]

Most people by the time they are 5 realise they can only survive at the whim of others , if people don't do what is required of them sometimes voluntary (like choosing to do a job) or compulsory (paying taxes) you die.

I guess a sociopath's fragile ego's can't except that fact

You ought to know, being one.

Nobody owes you anything. Not a sou, not a kopek, not a drop of water or a crumb of bread. There's a quid pro quo involved in every transaction we make with someone else.

Whether we need one another to survive is secondary in importance to how we go about gaining the labor input we each need in order to do so.

You have no compunctions about enslaving others to your needs even if they don't want to be enslaved. I enslave no one and I provide compensation for any assistance I might require, and if assistance is not voluntarily given, then I do it myself, or don't do it at all.

You're just a proxy slaver. You're no better that the Boko Haram cocksuckers who kidnap and sell little girls.

[JimC]

Most people by the time they are 5 realise they can only survive at the whim of others , if people don't do what is required of them sometimes voluntary (like choosing to do a job) or compulsory (paying taxes) you die.

I guess a sociopath's fragile ego's can't except that fact

Jonno, you have taken the reasonable idea that we all have mutual dependence on our fellow citizens to heights of absurdity...

It is not on the "whim" of others, unless you are part of a society that is run by psychopathic monsters, like North Korea.

And there are many ferals, dropouts and anarchic individuals who ignore society's demands, and do not die as a consequence...

[mistermack]

Most people by the time they are 5 realise they can only survive at the whim of others , if people don't do what is required of them sometimes voluntary (like choosing to do a job) or compulsory (paying taxes) you die.

I guess a sociopath's fragile ego's can't except that fact

Jonno, you have taken the reasonable idea that we all have mutual dependence on our fellow citizens to heights of absurdity...

It is not on the "whim" of others, unless you are part of a society that is run by psychopathic monsters, like North Korea.

And there are many ferals, dropouts and anarchic individuals who ignore society's demands, and do not die as a consequence...

No, I'm with Jonno on this one.
Very few five-year-olds can hack it on their own.

[MrJonno]

Most people by the time they are 5 realise they can only survive at the whim of others , if people don't do what is required of them sometimes voluntary (like choosing to do a job) or compulsory (paying taxes) you die.

I guess a sociopath's fragile ego's can't except that fact

Jonno, you have taken the reasonable idea that we all have mutual dependence on our fellow citizens to heights of absurdity...

It is not on the "whim" of others, unless you are part of a society that is run by psychopathic monsters, like North Korea.

And there are many ferals, dropouts and anarchic individuals who ignore society's demands, and do not die as a consequence...

It's not a case of individuals stop doing their job and I instantly drop dead, its the fact to survive long term survival for 7 billion people requires civilization and civilization means rules and taxes

[Hermit]

...civilization means rules and taxes

...and green belts. Don't forget the green belts.

[JimC]

Most people by the time they are 5 realise they can only survive at the whim of others , if people don't do what is required of them sometimes voluntary (like choosing to do a job) or compulsory (paying taxes) you die.

I guess a sociopath's fragile ego's can't except that fact

Jonno, you have taken the reasonable idea that we all have mutual dependence on our fellow citizens to heights of absurdity...

It is not on the "whim" of others, unless you are part of a society that is run by psychopathic monsters, like North Korea.

And there are many ferals, dropouts and anarchic individuals who ignore society's demands, and do not die as a consequence...

It's not a case of individuals stop doing their job and I instantly drop dead, its the fact to survive long term survival for 7 billion people requires civilization and civilization means rules and taxes

Fine, just lets drop the hyperbole...

After all, we can safely leave that to Seth...

[MrJonno]

Fine, just lets drop the hyperbole...

It gets to the heart of why libertarian is such an evil ideology, 'freedom' and everything being voluntary isn't going to keep 7 billion people alive but libertarians don't care about that which is why this cult needs to be fought at every opoortunity

[laklak]

Exterminating about 6 billion would be a decent start. Them of course, not us.

[Seth]

Most people by the time they are 5 realise they can only survive at the whim of others , if people don't do what is required of them sometimes voluntary (like choosing to do a job) or compulsory (paying taxes) you die.

I guess a sociopath's fragile ego's can't except that fact

Jonno, you have taken the reasonable idea that we all have mutual dependence on our fellow citizens to heights of absurdity...

It is not on the "whim" of others, unless you are part of a society that is run by psychopathic monsters, like North Korea.

And there are many ferals, dropouts and anarchic individuals who ignore society's demands, and do not die as a consequence...

No, I'm with Jonno on this one.
Very few five-year-olds can hack it on their own.

That's what parents are for...

[Seth]

Most people by the time they are 5 realise they can only survive at the whim of others , if people don't do what is required of them sometimes voluntary (like choosing to do a job) or compulsory (paying taxes) you die.

I guess a sociopath's fragile ego's can't except that fact

Jonno, you have taken the reasonable idea that we all have mutual dependence on our fellow citizens to heights of absurdity...

It is not on the "whim" of others, unless you are part of a society that is run by psychopathic monsters, like North Korea.

And there are many ferals, dropouts and anarchic individuals who ignore society's demands, and do not die as a consequence...

It's not a case of individuals stop doing their job and I instantly drop dead, its the fact to survive long term survival for 7 billion people requires civilization and civilization means rules and taxes

It's not about no taxes, it's about how taxes are imposed, how they are collected, and what they are used for. It's also not about no rules, it's about how they are created, enforced and why.

Only an idiot ignorant of history would hold the position that any and every tax or rule created by any government anywhere at any time in history is axiomatically right, proper, good, just and necessary just because some dipshit in government thought it up and persuaded a few people to enact it.

[Seth]

Fine, just lets drop the hyperbole...

It gets to the heart of why libertarian is such an evil ideology, 'freedom' and everything being voluntary isn't going to keep 7 billion people alive but libertarians don't care about that which is why this cult needs to be fought at every opoortunity

You know fuck-all about Libertarianism and you know it. You do nothing other than erect strawmen and then knock them down, and nothing you say has even the remotest connection to reality or truth.

In other words, you're intellectually dishonest, deliberately mendacious, willfully ignorant and a putz.

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

Only an idiot ignorant of history would hold the position that any and every tax or rule created by any government anywhere at any time in history is axiomatically right, proper, good, just and necessary just because some dipshit in government thought it up and persuaded a few people to enact it.

True. However, in the majority of modern democracies, most of the rules and taxes are accepted (if grudgingly) by most of the people. If certain rules or taxes become too oppressive for the majority to bear, then an answer can be found at the ballot box, not by spitting the dummy and blaming governments for all ills...

(Jonno does the opposite, and says that the government is always right, or at least is the only thing standing between us and utter disaster; in reality, individuals need to play their own part, to a degree, in ensuring their own well-being...)

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

Only an idiot ignorant of history would hold the position that any and every tax or rule created by any government anywhere at any time in history is axiomatically right, proper, good, just and necessary just because some dipshit in government thought it up and persuaded a few people to enact it.

True. However, in the majority of modern democracies, most of the rules and taxes are accepted (if grudgingly) by most of the people. If certain rules or taxes become too oppressive for the majority to bear, then an answer can be found at the ballot box, not by spitting the dummy and blaming governments for all ills...

True enough. Under Libertarianism however, bureaucrats could enact any tax they thought necessary...but only as a suggestion...and each and every individual would decide for him or herself whether to voluntarily pay that tax to fund that government program or service. THAT, my friend, is the very best form of direct democracy there is. If the bureaucrat makes a convincing case of the need for funds to accomplish something, people will agree and pay the tax without being browbeaten, coerced and physically threatened into doing so. If the bureaucrats can't make the case to the people that the tax is really necessary and will be well-spent on what it's been collected for, people won't pay the tax and the program or service goes unfunded.

That's essentially what Colorado has with it's TABOR (Taxpayer Bill of Rights) constitutional amendment that requires all levels of government to tell the people what the tax is for and how much revenue the tax is authorized to produce and then ASK THE PEOPLE if they want that tax authorized by a public vote. It also requires that the government return any revenues collected in excess of what was asked for and authorized to the public, to prevent government from keeping "windfall" revenues, thereby keeping taxes as low as the public demands they be.

It's a great system that has kept Colorado from going the way of New York, Detroit and California. But it drives Democrats and Progressive Marxists insane with fury. So insane that they filed a lawsuit to have the law thrown out on the specious notion that by requiring the legislature to ask the voters for permission to impose a new tax the constitutional amendment violates the federal Constitution, which guarantees every state a "republican" form of government. They claim that the power to tax is an inherent part of a republican-style government, and that TABOR moves the taxing authority to the people. This is untrue however. Government can propose any tax it wants, it just has to persuade the people to allow them to collect it. In short, the Progressive Marxists and liberals hate it because they know damned good and well that the public doesn't want to pay for most of their liberal excesses, and they bridle at being brought back under the whip.

Fuck 'em, they need a good lashing.

(Jonno does the opposite, and says that the government is always right, or at least is the only thing standing between us and utter disaster; in reality, individuals need to play their own part, to a degree, in ensuring their own well-being...)[/quote]

[piscator]

Exterminating about 6 billion would be a decent start. Them of course, not us.

That's what parents are for...