Scottish Islands will demand their own independence

[ronmcd]

Out of the mouths of idiots.

You said it.

You know the islands aren't demanding independence?

[JimC]

Out of the mouths of idiots.

You said it.

You know the islands aren't demanding independence?

To quote a part of mm's OP:

...Now, according to the the BBC News one minute ago, they are getting together with a view to demanding more autonomy from Wesminster AND the Scottish Parliament.
Next step, an Islands parliament, after that, independence....

So, if you had read it properly, you would know that mm was simply suggesting what a plausible future move for the islands might be. Whether his conjecture is right or not is another matter...

[ronmcd]

BTW, the reason that James Cook who presented the BBC news piece about the islands & independence was there at all was because there was a televised debate last night on BBC Scotland, one of a series from different parts of the country. He wasn't there to report on some dramatic demand for independence from the islands.

The islands for a while now have been rightly making the most of the constitutional situation and asking - quite calmly - for more control over their own affairs, in addition to the cut of the oil revenues they currently get. It's the perfect time to play the two governments off against each other and get agreements from both no matter what the outcome in September.

Every few months there's another story about the islands either becoming independent or staying with UK. It's political mischief making, and it never comes from anywhere near the North of Scotland. Oddly enough.

Of course the islands could vote for independence if they wanted, just like anywhere else.

[ronmcd]

So, if you had read it properly, you would know that mm was simply suggesting what a plausible future move for the islands might be. Whether his conjecture is right or not is another matter...

I did read it properly. Did you read the title of the thread?

Scottish Islands will demand their own independence

[mistermack]

First Scotland got some devolution, then their own parliament, then they wanted a vote on independence. It's a natural progression.
Some islanders are already talking about independence. Others about a council for the Islands.
Labour and the Scot Nats are saying that they are all for it. Big mistake, but what else can they do?
Especially the Nats. How could they deny to others the rights that they want for themselves?

The Islanders should be pushing the point right now, not waiting till after a possible yes vote.
Salmond will find a way to renege on it, once they have a yes vote.

They should insist on a definitive answer, while he's still pitching for votes.

[ronmcd]

First Scotland got some devolution, then their own parliament, then they wanted a vote on independence. It's a natural progression.
Some islanders are already talking about independence. Others about a council for the Islands.
Labour and the Scot Nats are saying that they are all for it. Big mistake, but what else can they do?
Especially the Nats. How could they deny to others the rights that they want for themselves?

The Islanders should be pushing the point right now, not waiting till after a possible yes vote.
Salmond will find a way to renege on it, once they have a yes vote.

They should insist on a definitive answer, while he's still pitching for votes.

Its the other way round though, the islands already have more autonomy, and revenue from the oil. There's no comparable demand for the islands independence, in the way there is for Scotland. And no electoral support or mandate. Imagining some link between the islands to the devolution/referendum process is nonsense. AFAIK the Scottish govt have already agreed to the increased autonomy proposals.

This is routinely brought up as a divide and conquer tactic.

Let's be frank. Nobody including you would give a flying fuck about the idea of independence for the islands if it weren't for the oil, other than those who live there. And they aren't the ones who bring the topic up repeatedly.

[JimC]

So, if you had read it properly, you would know that mm was simply suggesting what a plausible future move for the islands might be. Whether his conjecture is right or not is another matter...

I did read it properly. Did you read the title of the thread?

Scottish Islands will demand their own independence

Think a little about tenses...

"Will" is in the future tense (although I think mm should have used "may")

"Are" is present tense - mm has not said they are currently demanding independence, which was what your post suggested...

[mistermack]

Ronmcd, On the subject of the bleedin obvious, it seems necessary to point out that nobody knows the future.
Therefore, if I write that something WILL happen, it's obviously just my opinion.
I haven't traveled into the future to check it.

Just so as you know.

In the future.

[ronmcd]

Ronmcd, On the subject of the bleedin obvious, it seems necessary to point out that nobody knows the future.
Therefore, if I write that something WILL happen, it's obviously just my opinion.
I haven't traveled into the future to check it.

Just so as you know.

In the future.

Fine. I'll give you this, your "Scottish Islands will demand independence" bait succeeded in dragging me in, so well done. I'll know to just ignore in the future if your words have no meaning.

[mistermack]

Ronmcd, On the subject of the bleedin obvious, it seems necessary to point out that nobody knows the future.
Therefore, if I write that something WILL happen, it's obviously just my opinion.
I haven't traveled into the future to check it.

Just so as you know.

In the future.

Fine. I'll give you this, your "Scottish Islands will demand independence" bait succeeded in dragging me in, so well done. I'll know to just ignore in the future if your words have no meaning.

That's ok Mac.
My OP was an invitation to debate the proposition. And even though you didn't work that out, you still managed to take part. So whether by luck or by judgement, well done.

I'll try to make it simpler, in the future.

[ronmcd]

I'll try to make it simpler, in the future.

It doesn't get any simpler - the islands are *getting* more control over local issues, and you claimed they will now demand independence, "a dead cert". Right.

This self same tactic to exploit the islands has been used by many opposed to independence in the past. And those who live there realise it, even if some here don't.

[klr]

Probably taking most of the oil and gas fields with them. Why share the revenue with Edinburgh?

How big is the Orkney Islands Navy?

Oh, I hear the Orkneys have a nice anchorage they could lease to the Scottish Navy.

Actually, Scapa Flow could probably hold all the major ships in all the Western European navies at the same time.

[Svartalf]

I've seen maps but I did not realize the bay was that large

[JimC]

I hear they are agitating to join the Russian Federation, and Putin is making encouraging noises...

[piscator]

Probably taking most of the oil and gas fields with them. Why share the revenue with Edinburgh?

How big is the Orkney Islands Navy?

Oh, I hear the Orkneys have a nice anchorage they could lease to the Scottish Navy.

Actually, Scapa Flow could probably hold all the major ships in all the Western European navies at the same time.

So could Unalaska, Pearl, or Hampton Roads but you'd have to think they'd never do that, at least unless America made them do it.