Iraq ready to legalise childhood marriage

[Hermit]

My difficulties in believing that there is actually a majority of moderate Muslims are increasing.

...the legislation, known as the Jaafari law, introduces rules almost identical to those of neighbouring Iran, a Shia-dominated Islamic theocracy.

While there is no set minimum age for marriage, the section on divorce includes rules for girls who have reached the age of nine.

Marital rape is condoned by a clause that states women must comply with their husband's sexual demands. Men are given guardianship rights over women and the law also establishes rules governing polygamous relationships.

...

Supporters of the law, named after a Shia Muslim school of jurisprudence, say it simply regulates practices already existing in day-to-day life.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=11235162

While Iran and Iraq are definitely at the extreme end of the scale, other Muslim nations, such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not much better. I am quite glad that the so called Arab Spring failed too, even though this meant a reversion to military dictatorship. Can anyone point out a Muslim nation to me that resembles a democracy?

[MrJonno]

While Iran and Iraq are definitely at the extreme end of the scale, other Muslim nations, such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not much bette

Bit more complex than that

Iran is relatively moderate and a democracy (even if flawed)
Iraq is still a warzone
Pakistan is a failed state
Saudi Arabia is a very nasty source of most Islamic terrorism and pro Western state

[Hermit]

While Iran and Iraq are definitely at the extreme end of the scale, other Muslim nations, such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not much bette

Iran is relatively moderate and a democracy (even if flawed)

It's a theocracy with sham elections. The head of state is known as the supreme leader, and he has all the power. For life. Among the necessary qualifications to become the supreme leader are to be knowledgeable in Islamic law and pious. He is elected by the 88 members of the Assembly of Experts. In order to be eligible to become a member one has to be a Muslim cleric. This requirement is determined by the Assembly itself, and nobody else. The Assembly has authorised the Guardian Council to vet the candidates using the Assembly's criteria. The Guardian Council consists of Islamic jurists, and, you guessed it, is elected by the Assembly of Experts. The council also has the ultimate say over which measures by parliament will be allowed and which will be rejected. So, "flawed" is a bit of an understatement. Iran's government is not a democracy in my understanding of the term.

[laklak]

I'm SO glad we spent trillions of dollars and of lives to make Iraq a safe, secure, pro-Western democracy. Aren't y'all?

[Svartalf]

You're still free to judge the Bushes for high treason and seize all their assets and those of their supporters.

[MrJonno]

While Iran and Iraq are definitely at the extreme end of the scale, other Muslim nations, such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not much bette

Iran is relatively moderate and a democracy (even if flawed)

It's a theocracy with sham elections. The head of state is known as the supreme leader, and he has all the power. For life. Among the necessary qualifications to become the supreme leader are to be knowledgeable in Islamic law and pious. He is elected by the 88 members of the Assembly of Experts. In order to be eligible to become a member one has to be a Muslim cleric. This requirement is determined by the Assembly itself, and nobody else. The Assembly has authorised the Guardian Council to vet the candidates using the Assembly's criteria. The Guardian Council consists of Islamic jurists, and, you guessed it, is elected by the Assembly of Experts. The council also has the ultimate say over which measures by parliament will be allowed and which will be rejected. So, "flawed" is a bit of an understatement. Iran's government is not a democracy in my understanding of the term.

It's a flawed democracy with far too involvement from religion but its a hell of a lot more liberal than Saudi Arabia, Iraqi elections are a joke as the government doesnt control anything outside about 3 square miles.

Almost any imposed regime change in Iran would lead to something far worst

[Hermit]

While Iran and Iraq are definitely at the extreme end of the scale, other Muslim nations, such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not much bette

Iran is relatively moderate and a democracy (even if flawed)

It's a theocracy with sham elections. The head of state is known as the supreme leader, and he has all the power. For life. Among the necessary qualifications to become the supreme leader are to be knowledgeable in Islamic law and pious. He is elected by the 88 members of the Assembly of Experts. In order to be eligible to become a member one has to be a Muslim cleric. This requirement is determined by the Assembly itself, and nobody else. The Assembly has authorised the Guardian Council to vet the candidates using the Assembly's criteria. The Guardian Council consists of Islamic jurists, and, you guessed it, is elected by the Assembly of Experts. The council also has the ultimate say over which measures by parliament will be allowed and which will be rejected. So, "flawed" is a bit of an understatement. Iran's government is not a democracy in my understanding of the term.

...far too involvement from religion...

Well, we agree on that at least. The difference between our views is that where you see a "flawed democracy" I see effectively a pure theocracy.

[MrJonno]

Well, we agree on that at least. The difference between our views is that where you see a "flawed democracy" I see effectively a pure theocracy.

It's obviously not a pure theocracy as the people can at least some choice .

Democracy with a theocratic constitution?. Saudi Arabia is 90% theocracy 10% Western pawn

[Hermit]

Well, we agree on that at least. The difference between our views is that where you see a "flawed democracy" I see effectively a pure theocracy.

It's obviously not a pure theocracy as the people can at least some choice .

Sure. Be a Muslim or beheaded. Some choice.

Let's see now, what else can people choose? Which party to vote for? Nope. Can they choose what to say? Nope. Choose their husbands? Nope Their wives? Yessssss! We have found "some choice" at last. Pity about those nine year old girls, though.

[tattuchu]

Turkey's not so bad, I think?

[Svartalf]

But getting worse by the month...

[Hermit]

Turkey's not so bad, I think?

Yes. Thanks for the reminder. Shortly after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Turkey, an overwhelmingly Islamic nation, formed a secular government under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal Pasha (Atatürk) in 1923, and despite a number of military coups has remained so. In 1933 women became franchised to vote and joined the males over 18 who already were.

Unfortunately, Svartalf is also right. Islamic fundamentalists have gained a foothold, then kept steadily increasing their social influence and political power ever since economic liberalisation deepened income inequalities and the rift between the rich and the poor. If this trend keeps going, I foresee an intifada resulting in the overthrow of its secular constitution and the institution of yet another fundamentalist Islamic theocracy.

Still, Turkey demonstrates that an Islamic populace does not preclude the possibility of a secular or democratic government. It also demonstrates that the decision makers in the west either don't have a fucking clue what makes Islamic fundamentalism so influential, or they just don't fucking care. Or, worse, both.

[Svartalf]

Actually, it does... the islamic populace gave the conservative islamic AKP party incredible election victories, despit its scandals and corruption and let it prevent the army from doing its normal role of guardian of the Kemalist constitution.

[Hermit]

Actually, it does... the islamic populace gave the conservative islamic AKP party incredible election victories, despit its scandals and corruption and let it prevent the army from doing its normal role of guardian of the Kemalist constitution.

Either you have missed reading some major bits of the post you purportedly replied to, or I have misunderstood what you are saying.

[Svartalf]

I answered to the last paragraph only... the army no longer is a political power to keep the corrupt politicos in line and the country a lay democracy... But your right, the country is on the islamic slide.