Meanwhile, back in Kiev....

[mistermack]

I notice that the Crimean Tatars, who owned the place before the Russians conquered it in the 1700s, boycott the referendum and don't want to be assimilated into Russia...

This is NI all over again.

Well, they were happy to go to Moscow and trash the place, and take millions of Russians into slavery, so you could argue that Russians built the place, and deserve to keep it.

[MiM]

Funny, there's a lot of support for this sort of referendum as long as it's a politically correct group that wants to leave. Self-determination and all that. But Crimea tries it and it's all the fault of the Big Bad Russian Bear. I wonder how much support a referendum to reestablish the Confederacy would gather?

Well, there are differences. For one leaving is another thing than joining another country. Secondly, the west at least tries to discuss thin in UN first. Third, the time scale and the fact hat they are holding a referendum at gunpoint is just horrendous.

Ha, that's a blatantly false portrayal of the facts. Crimea has been historically part of Russia for the majority of it's history. It wouldn't be joining another country, it would be re-joining its original country.
It's attachment to Ukraine was purely symbolic, and should have been reversed when Ukraine became independent.
Also, the phrase "at gunpoint" is entirely untrue. Nobody is pointing guns at the voters, as you very well know.
Why try to misrepresent the truth? Maybe your case is too weak on it's own?

Historically Finland has belonged to Sweden for 500+years, to Russia for 100+years and has been independent for less than 100 years. Still I think Finland has its place among independent countries, and it would be fair for us to object to either Sweden or Russia trying to take us over, don't you think.

Militia with kalashnikovs on the streets and outside voting places, I don't think that is good for democracy. Wether you call it "at gunpoint" or not.

[mistermack]

On the News, right now, they are reporting that polling finished an hour ago, and exit polls indicate 93% have voted in favour of joining Russia.

They didn't build fires or shoot people, in contrast to how the Kiev gang got power.
That's democracy.

It's funny how the west only likes democracy, when it delivers what they want.
Just like the Russians really. There's no fuckin difference.

[Svartalf]

except that stalinian bit of statistic was obtained through dubious conditions of voting (militias intimidating people going to the polling station, no serious ID control to prevent people from voting in several stations etc etc)

[mistermack]

except that stalinian bit of statistic was obtained through dubious conditions of voting (militias intimidating people going to the polling station, no serious ID control to prevent people from voting in several stations etc etc)

Linky? Or is that just what you imagine happened? Anyway, I don't see how that could show up in an exit poll.
The official poll result might be different.

[Svartalf]

No link, I just heard it from a reporter in Simferopol on the radio.

[mistermack]

The Americans are amazing.
They just put out a statement ''we are long past the days when one country could just seize the territory of another''.

Has Israel vanished? Where has it gone? Are there no settlements being built?

Bunch of lying cunts.

[Svartalf]

Well, there's a statement that was aa sheer waste of whatever, just watch Putin seize the Crimea.

[FBM]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26598832

If 93% of them want to be Russian, let 'em be Russian. They're rushin' to be Russian.

[Svartalf]

I think the nay sayers boycotted the poll or were strongly discouraged...

[MiM]

Who reported that exit poll? And in what ways is that report reliable?

And if the situation in Crimea is that clear, why the rush? With a +90% vote the move could be made in an orderly fashion, without any diplomatic risks for Putin or anyone else.

[FBM]

The latest from BBC says 95.5% "for" as reported by "officials." As for who these officials are and what their ties may be,

[Svartalf]

Who reported that exit poll? And in what ways is that report reliable?

And if the situation in Crimea is that clear, why the rush? With a +90% vote the move could be made in an orderly fashion, without any diplomatic risks for Putin or anyone else.

The Crimean gummint reported it, which is funny since as late as yesterday evening it was said the results should not be unveiled before tomorrow... I guess measures have been taken to ensure that this report is quite reliable.

[MiM]

Who reported that exit poll? And in what ways is that report reliable?

And if the situation in Crimea is that clear, why the rush? With a +90% vote the move could be made in an orderly fashion, without any diplomatic risks for Putin or anyone else.

The Crimean gummint reported it, which is funny since as late as yesterday evening it was said the results should not be unveiled before tomorrow... I guess measures have been taken to ensure that this report is quite reliable.

It certainly will accurately predict the final outcome of the referendum.

[klr]

On the News, right now, they are reporting that polling finished an hour ago, and exit polls indicate 93% have voted in favour of joining Russia.

They didn't build fires or shoot people, in contrast to how the Kiev gang got power.
That's democracy.

It's funny how the west only likes democracy, when it delivers what they want.
Just like the Russians really. There's no fuckin difference.

I love the way you manage to twist everything around. They didn't have to shoot anyone, because they had a massive preponderance of weapons and organization, with the backing of Russian forces already in the Crimea. They captured, blockaded, intimidated ...

And "the West" has been more than ready to accept the outcomes of many a foreign election that was not to their liking. I don't recall the US invading (say) Venezuela lately.

As to the exit poll numbers: They are probably quite accurate, since practically no-one opposed to this actually voted, for any number of reasons. If the Crimea was so overwhelmingly pro-Russian, then this would have been an issue many years earlier.

The Americans are amazing.
They just put out a statement ''we are long past the days when one country could just seize the territory of another''.

Has Israel vanished? Where has it gone? Are there no settlements being built?

Bunch of lying cunts.

No, Israel has not vanished. Are you suggesting that it should?

And yes, there are settlements being built, and the US is amongst those against this. Could it do more? Of course it could - so could a lot of countries.