We may as well. That's the way it's heading..

Just not Tasmania, please...rEvolutionist wrote:Nukes for everyone!
We may as well. That's the way it's heading..
Agreed. Qadafi, who voluntarily gave up his nuclear program, is gone; Ukraine, which voluntarily gave up their nuclear weapons, is being divvied up by the great powers. Meanwhile, North Korea is left alone. It's becoming more and more clear that actual nuclear weapons are a much better guarantor of safety than trusting to the big nuclear nations.MiM wrote:This is something that I find extremely disturbing (professionally tinted as I am). The complete disregard by Putin of promises given when Ukraine abstained from their nukes, and the inability of the west to do anything about it.Svartalf wrote:I bet the UKrainian gummint will be asking Iran or NK about help to develop their own nuke arsenal...This does not encourage anyone to abstain from nukes, and could become the most far reaching effect of this conflict in times to come.
You've got a funny idea of safety.Warren Dew wrote:Agreed. Qadafi, who voluntarily gave up his nuclear program, is gone; Ukraine, which voluntarily gave up their nuclear weapons, is being divvied up by the great powers. Meanwhile, North Korea is left alone. It's becoming more and more clear that actual nuclear weapons are a much better guarantor of safety than trusting to the big nuclear nations.MiM wrote:This is something that I find extremely disturbing (professionally tinted as I am). The complete disregard by Putin of promises given when Ukraine abstained from their nukes, and the inability of the west to do anything about it.Svartalf wrote:I bet the UKrainian gummint will be asking Iran or NK about help to develop their own nuke arsenal...This does not encourage anyone to abstain from nukes, and could become the most far reaching effect of this conflict in times to come.
If the Crimeans had decided to hold this referendum without Russian backing, the thugs from Kiev would have sent in their bully boys, like they are doing in Eastern Ukraine.Svartalf wrote:The Russians have prevented nothing, there would not have been the current unrest there if not for the Russian agit-prop action.
Well, there are differences. For one leaving is another thing than joining another country. Secondly, the west at least tries to discuss thin in UN first. Third, the time scale and the fact hat they are holding a referendum at gunpoint is just horrendous.laklak wrote:Funny, there's a lot of support for this sort of referendum as long as it's a politically correct group that wants to leave. Self-determination and all that. But Crimea tries it and it's all the fault of the Big Bad Russian Bear. I wonder how much support a referendum to reestablish the Confederacy would gather?
Iz funny they didn't try it without Russian prompting at some point during the last 20 years.laklak wrote:Funny, there's a lot of support for this sort of referendum as long as it's a politically correct group that wants to leave. Self-determination and all that. But Crimea tries it and it's all the fault of the Big Bad Russian Bear. I wonder how much support a referendum to reestablish the Confederacy would gather?
Ha, that's a blatantly false portrayal of the facts. Crimea has been historically part of Russia for the majority of it's history. It wouldn't be joining another country, it would be re-joining its original country.MiM wrote:Well, there are differences. For one leaving is another thing than joining another country. Secondly, the west at least tries to discuss thin in UN first. Third, the time scale and the fact hat they are holding a referendum at gunpoint is just horrendous.laklak wrote:Funny, there's a lot of support for this sort of referendum as long as it's a politically correct group that wants to leave. Self-determination and all that. But Crimea tries it and it's all the fault of the Big Bad Russian Bear. I wonder how much support a referendum to reestablish the Confederacy would gather?
There was a legal government in Kiev before now. I'm sure that they felt that their interests were represented in the government, up to this point.Svartalf wrote: Iz funny they didn't try it without Russian prompting at some point during the last 20 years.
Talking of misrepresentation, the Crimea has never been a part of Russia for the majority of its history. The Romans, the Goths, the Huns, the Genoese, the Venetians...............each had dibs on it. Indeed, the Romans controlled it for far longer than the Russians did.mistermack wrote:Ha, that's a blatantly false portrayal of the facts. Crimea has been historically part of Russia for the majority of it's history. It wouldn't be joining another country, it would be re-joining its original country.MiM wrote:Well, there are differences. For one leaving is another thing than joining another country. Secondly, the west at least tries to discuss thin in UN first. Third, the time scale and the fact hat they are holding a referendum at gunpoint is just horrendous.laklak wrote:Funny, there's a lot of support for this sort of referendum as long as it's a politically correct group that wants to leave. Self-determination and all that. But Crimea tries it and it's all the fault of the Big Bad Russian Bear. I wonder how much support a referendum to reestablish the Confederacy would gather?
It's attachment to Ukraine was purely symbolic, and should have been reversed when Ukraine became independent.
Also, the phrase "at gunpoint" is entirely untrue. Nobody is pointing guns at the voters, as you very well know.
Why try to misrepresent the truth? Maybe your case is too weak on it's own?
There was a legal government in Kiev before now. I'm sure that they felt that their interests were represented in the government, up to this point.Svartalf wrote: Iz funny they didn't try it without Russian prompting at some point during the last 20 years.
It's obviously very different now.
There's an illegal gang in charge, who publicly declare that they want to break the links with Russia.
If I ever get nits, I'll send for you to pick them.aspire1670 wrote: Talking of misrepresentation, the Crimea has never been a part of Russia for the majority of its history. The Romans, the Goths, the Huns, the Genoese, the Venetians...............each had dibs on it. Indeed, the Romans controlled it for far longer than the Russians did.
aspire1670 wrote:...the Crimea has never been a part of Russia for the majority of its history.
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