Fusion Power, this time it'll work.

[pErvinalia]

Nuclear fusion breakthrough raises hopes for ultimate green energy source

US researchers have achieved a world first in an ambitious experiment that aims to recreate the conditions at the heart of the sun and pave the way for nuclear fusion reactors.

The scientists generated more energy from fusion reactions than they put into the nuclear fuel, in a small but crucial step along the road to harnessing fusion power. The ultimate goal – to produce more energy than the whole experiment consumes – remains a long way off, but the feat has nonetheless raised hopes that after decades of setbacks, firm progress is finally being made.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014 ... MP=soc_567

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Bastit! Added a source just as I chided you about it!

[pErvinalia]

[JimC]

I pinched the link, and added it to the library of links for my physics students...

[Hermit]

I am surprised that Scumple has not pounced on this news item yet. It has wonderful potential to paint yet another doomsday scenario, especially this bit:

helium nuclei that are produced in the fusion reactions dump their energy into the fuel, heating it up even further, and driving a cycle of ever more fusion.

Just imagine - runaway fusion. The entire globe will implode and become a miniature sun for a brief moment.

[JimC]

I am surprised that Scumple has not pounced on this news item yet. It has wonderful potential to paint yet another doomsday scenario, especially this bit:

helium nuclei that are produced in the fusion reactions dump their energy into the fuel, heating it up even further, and driving a cycle of ever more fusion.

Just imagine - runaway fusion. The entire globe will implode and become a miniature sun for a brief moment.

During the development of the A bomb in WW2, there were very faint, but lingering fears that somehow a run-away nuclear reaction could destroy the Earth...

[pErvinalia]

I am surprised that Scumple has not pounced on this news item yet. It has wonderful potential to paint yet another doomsday scenario, especially this bit:

helium nuclei that are produced in the fusion reactions dump their energy into the fuel, heating it up even further, and driving a cycle of ever more fusion.

Just imagine - runaway fusion. The entire globe will implode and become a miniature sun for a brief moment.

Yeah, I seen the Spiderman movie (I think it was).

[mistermack]

''this time it'll work''.
Depends what you mean by work. The progress is actually depressingly slow.
Getting an instantaneous ignition, with slightly more energy out than in, is a long way off producing useful power. The ITER project is aiming to produce eight minutes of continuous running fusion. Which is in a different ball park altogether from a one-off ignition.
Do they have lasers that can run continuously, to produce a stream of energy? And do they have materials that can withstand the neutrons produced?

It's progress, but I don't detect any optimism that any of the projects will ever pay off.
This american project is actually being funded, as far as I can tell, because it gives the americans a way of testing their stockpiled nuclear weapons stock, while keeping to the test ban treaty.
So it's really being funded for military reasons, not through a prospect of success.

The Iter project is just as pessimistic. The road ahead is clearer, but it keeps going backwards in time, and upwards in budget.

I have my doubts that anybody alive today will ever see economic fusion power being produced.

That is, apart from the free stuff that we currently get from the Sun.

[JimC]

''this time it'll work''.
Depends what you mean by work. The progress is actually depressingly slow.
Getting an instantaneous ignition, with slightly more energy out than in, is a long way off producing useful power. The ITER project is aiming to produce eight minutes of continuous running fusion. Which is in a different ball park altogether from a one-off ignition.
Do they have lasers that can run continuously, to produce a stream of energy? And do they have materials that can withstand the neutrons produced?

It's progress, but I don't detect any optimism that any of the projects will ever pay off.
This american project is actually being funded, as far as I can tell, because it gives the americans a way of testing their stockpiled nuclear weapons stock, while keeping to the test ban treaty.
So it's really being funded for military reasons, not through a prospect of success.

The Iter project is just as pessimistic. The road ahead is clearer, but it keeps going backwards in time, and upwards in budget.

I have my doubts that anybody alive today will ever see economic fusion power being produced.

That is, apart from the free stuff that we currently get from the Sun.

Scumple, what have you done with mistermack?

[mistermack]

Scumple, what have you done with mistermack?

I know, I used to be optimistic about fusion power.
But you only have to look at the relatively tiny budgets to work out that the governments are not anywhere near as optimistic.

The US government pisses about twenty billion dollars per year against the wall, supposedly fighting global warming. And yet their budget for fusion research is tiny in comparison.
If the objective is to cut out human carbon emissions, surely that money would be better spent on progress in fusion research. After all, if they could crack the fusion problem, the CO2 problem is cracked for ever, as well as bringing down the cost of energy.

Same with all the western countries. If they stopped all the wasteful spending on global warming projects and spent the money on the fusion projects, they might actually make a REAL difference, not an imaginary one.

[Tero]

Evidence of wasteful spending?

Take into account that nearly half of our activity is wasteful spending. We are just parasites on farmers, oil rig guys, drunk tanker captains, construction workers, auto workers and Chinese.

Most of us don't produce anything of much value. Some sort if service.

[mistermack]

Evidence of wasteful spending?

Take into account that nearly half of our activity is wasteful spending. We are just parasites on farmers, oil rig guys, drunk tanker captains, construction workers, auto workers and Chinese.

Most of us don't produce anything of much value. Some sort if service.

In a free market, the value of what you produce is equal to the money you get paid for it.

It doesn't matter if it's fried chicken or fishing line. If people will pay money for it, that's it's value.

Unfortunately, when it comes to government spending, it's votes that they want in return for the spending. Actual value comes way down the list.

[Hermit]

In a free market, the value of what you produce is equal to the money you get paid for it.

In a free market the value of fusion research would be zero. And that would also be the size of the budget allotted to it.

[Svartalf]

Good thing it's not a wholly privatized free market, then, and that there are people willing to research it.

Regardless of how slowly the research goes, its implication in pure knowledge and possible cheap energy are just too important to give up.

[mistermack]

There isn't a free market in energy. There are various machinations going on all the time.
But it's the market price of oil and gas that makes fusion research a viable enterprise.

I'd like to see the money doubled and trebled at least. Just to see the brakes taken off a lot of energy-hungry projects like space travel, and irrigation.