The case against guns

[laklak]

We're only third in suicides?

Greenland's got you beat by a country mile. 83 / 100,000. Must truly suck to live in Greenland, eh? Couldn't even find Greenland in "guns per capita by country" list, so they've probably choking themselves to death on seal blubber. Lithuania just edged you out for second at 31 -vs- 28.1.

[FBM]

We're only third in suicides?

Greenland's got you beat by a country mile. 83 / 100,000. Must truly suck to live in Greenland, eh? Couldn't even find Greenland in "guns per capita by country" list, so they've probably choking themselves to death on seal blubber. Lithuania just edged you out for second at 31 -vs- 28.1.

OK, I gotta tip my hat to Greenland. Ain't no way in hell we're going to catch them. But fuck Lithuania. I'm putting their asses on notice.

[Seth]

The more guns = more suicides across nations is not and has never been my argument. It works inside the USA across different states. The problem with comparing suicide rates across nations is that there are too many cultural variables. Japan has a lot of suicides since it has always glorified suicide as being honorable and romantic. Some nations have high suicide rates due to high levels of alcoholism. The USA has neither suicide culture or high levels of alcoholism, but it is up with the rest due to high levels of hand gun ownership, which you can see by the fact that 60% of all successful suicides are done with hand guns.

Now you're just making shit up.

[Blind groper]

Now you're just making shit up.

Nope.

Looked it all up. You know. It is called google!

[Seth]

Now you're just making shit up.

Nope.

Looked it all up. You know. It is called google!

You have got to be trolling.

[Blind groper]

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0805923

Seth

While I know you don't bother reading my references, it may be worth pointing out to you the detailed information on the New England Journal of Medicine paper on guns and suicide in the USA. So, no. I am not making stuff up, nor am I trolling.

[Blind groper]

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE ... 8133270705

The above reference is a study that demonstrates clearly that, in the USA, simply having a gun in the home increases the risk of death by suicide.

Now, Seth, stretch your mind. Why don't you actually read my reference instead of blindly denying it?

[Blind groper]

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE ... 0073291506

The third nail in the coffin of gun lovers, courtesy of the New England Journal of Medicine.

The reference above is a study that demonstrates that having a gun in the home does not reduce risk of homicide. It increases it.

Simply owning a gun makes it statistically more likely that you will be murdered, or a member of your family will suicide.

[Svartalf]

We're only third in suicides?

Before or behind Japan?

[Blind groper]

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firea ... and-death/

And here is a summary from Harvard University showing that more guns means more homicides, whether measured in terms on guns in the home, American states, or even nation by nation within the wealthy nation group, even with the USA excluded.

Quite simply, more guns means more homicides. Denying this is ostrich head in the sand mentality. The total evidence is massive.

[Blind groper]

http://reason.com/archives/2001/05/21/m ... -more-guns

Of course Seth believes John Lott is God, and that his book shows that more guns reduces the crime rate, in spite of numerous academics rounding condemning those conclusions. The reference above shows why John Lott was wrong, and why his reported results are phoney.

Of course, there is not a chance in the world that Seth will actually read this reference, since it shows his god to have feet of clay. But maybe it may help someone else to realise the truth.

[Blind groper]

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/gun-i ... nra-2013-1

And here is one more claim from me, supported by the reference above. The gun lobby, the National Rifle Association, and the whole basis of gun lovers in America is as corrupt as hell.

It all stems from those who make money from death. By which I mean the ultra-corrupt and "evil" gun manufacturing industry. In order to keep their nice lucrative markets open, they give tens of millions of dollars to the NRA, so that the NRA can lobby on their behalf to make gun buying easy.

Never mind the thousands each year who die unnecessarily, as long as the gun makers can sell lots of guns and make millions of dollars!

[FBM]

We're only third in suicides?

Before or behind Japan?

We've got a good lead on Japan. It's Lithuania we've got to think about.

[Seth]

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0805923

Seth

While I know you don't bother reading my references, it may be worth pointing out to you the detailed information on the New England Journal of Medicine paper on guns and suicide in the USA. So, no. I am not making stuff up, nor am I trolling.

Yes, you are. I've read your sources and dismissed them as biased and inaccurate because they are biased and inaccurate. I won't bother reposting the refutations because I've done so before, and your sources have been soundly debunked by experts long, long ago.

Not to mention the fact that your asinine assertion that the US doesn't have a suicide or alcoholism problem comes directly from your ass.

As you know, the most accurate number of actual defensive gun uses available is that provided by the FBI itself, after studying case records where the use of a firearm by a victim was documented and investigated, and the FBI uses this hard data to estimate that at least 80,000 people per year lawfully use firearms defensively to protect themselves.

That's ten times the number of people being protected by firearms every year than you cite as being murdered by handguns.

Therefore, the benefit of individuals being armed outweighs the danger of their being murdered by a handgun by ten to one at a minimum, and if the research by Lott and many others is correct, which there is no reason to believe isn't the case even in the face of the allegations made by your pet Harvard hoplophobes who didn't actually replicate the study and find it in error, that number is more like 312 to one.

Setting aside for the moment all the other considerations that make your diatribes so much bilge, that fact alone completely destroys your argument.

[Seth]

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/gun-i ... nra-2013-1

And here is one more claim from me, supported by the reference above. The gun lobby, the National Rifle Association, and the whole basis of gun lovers in America is as corrupt as hell.

More lies.

It all stems from those who make money from death.

More lies.

By which I mean the ultra-corrupt and "evil" gun manufacturing industry.

Hoplophobic paranoia.

In order to keep their nice lucrative markets open, they give tens of millions of dollars to the NRA, so that the NRA can lobby on their behalf to make gun buying easy.

Too fucking right they do. It obviously escaped the tiny mind of the jackass from Australia who wrote the article that there's absolutely nothing whatever wrong with the firearms industry supporting the most powerful pro-gun citizen's political lobbying organization on earth in order to protect their industry. I'll bet the beer brewers down under are jealous as hell that they don't have a core group of more than 5 million citizens willing to contribute their hard-earned money and stand up and fight for their right to brew and sell beer.

The NRA is what we, the members of the NRA, want it to be. And what we want it to be is a potent force for the protection of our right to keep and bear arms, which it is. That obviously includes protecting the industry that supplies us with those arms. It also includes educating the public and persuading them to join the organization and contribute to fighting the evil forces of hoplophobic Marxist Progressives, quislings, cowards and mind-numbingly stupid pussies who are afraid of guns who want to destroy our rights, destroy the industry, and enslave us all.

Never mind the thousands each year who die unnecessarily, as long as the gun makers can sell lots of guns and make millions of dollars!

Typical of you to ignore the millions more who would be victimized and killed if they didn't.