Moon Poop

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Clinton Huxley
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:54 pm

Typical of humanity, harness the intellects of the best and brightest of a generation and the treasure of a superpower to devise the most powerful rocket, capable of sailing across the gulfs of space and delivering a brave and resourceful man to the Moon. So he can do a poo on it.
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by rainbow » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:32 am

Făkünamę wrote:Varying between 100c and -173c by this website
:tup: ...which would seem like the range in which microbes could thrive and multiply.
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by JimC » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:11 am

Ionising radiation intensity and dehydration are more important than temperature, IMO...
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:33 am

Don't disrupt their little fantasy, Jim! :hehe:
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Mysturji » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:15 pm

While bacteria can survive (read: be preserved) in harsh conditions such as those found in space, in order to "thrive and flourish" they need a rather more hospitable environment.
If someone brought the moon poop back to Earth and thawed it out, some of the bacteria in it could well start to thrive and multiply again, after its long hibernation.
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Jason » Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:58 pm

China is going to clone Neil Armstrong. Or maybe make steaks. :o

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Re: Moon Poop

Post by rainbow » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:14 am

Mysturji wrote:While bacteria can survive (read: be preserved) in harsh conditions such as those found in space, in order to "thrive and flourish" they need a rather more hospitable environment.

So these guys are wrong?: http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/extremophile.html

Are you going to tell them?
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Mysturji » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:28 pm

rainbow wrote:
Mysturji wrote:While bacteria can survive (read: be preserved) in harsh conditions such as those found in space, in order to "thrive and flourish" they need a rather more hospitable environment.

So these guys are wrong?: http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/extremophile.html

Are you going to tell them?
No. You are wrong. That is a more hospitable environment than space. As I said.
Sir Figg Newton wrote:If I have seen further than others, it is only because I am surrounded by midgets.
Cormac wrote:Doom predictors have been with humans right through our history. They are like the proverbial stopped clock - right twice a day, but not due to the efficacy of their prescience.
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by rainbow » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:38 am

Mysturji wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Mysturji wrote:While bacteria can survive (read: be preserved) in harsh conditions such as those found in space, in order to "thrive and flourish" they need a rather more hospitable environment.

So these guys are wrong?: http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/extremophile.html

Are you going to tell them?
No. You are wrong. That is a more hospitable environment than space. As I said.
I see. Have any studies been done?
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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Calilasseia » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:16 pm

A relevant paper is this one:

Survival Of Lichens And Bacteria Exposed To Outer Space Conditions - Results Of The Lithopanspermia Experiments by Rosa de la Torre, Leopoldo G. Sancho, Gerda Horneck, Asunción de los Ríos,
Jacek Wierzchos, Karen Olsson-Francis, Charles S. Cockell, Petra Rettberg, Thomas Berger, Jean-Pierre P. de Vera, Sieglinde Ott, Jesús Martínez Frías, Pablo González Melendi, María Mercedes Lucas, Manuel Reina, Ana Pintado & Rene Demets, Icarus, 208(2): 735-748 (August 2010)
de la Torre et al, 2010 wrote:Abstract

In the space experiments Lithopanspermia, experimental support was provided to the likelihood of the lithopanspermia concept that considers a viable transport of microorganisms between the terrestrial planets by means of meteorites. The rock colonising lichens Rhizocarpon geographicum and Xanthoria elegans, the vagrant lichen Aspicilia fruticulosa, and endolithic and endoevaporitic communities of cyanobacteria and bacteria with their natural rock substrate were exposed to space for 10 days onboard the Biopan facility of the European Space Agency (ESA). Biopan was closed during launch and re-entry. In addition, in the Stone facility, one sample of R. geographicum on its natural granitic substrate was attached at the outer surface of the re-entry capsule close to the stagnation point, only protected by a thin cover of glass textolite. Post-flight analysis, which included determination of the photosynthetic activity, LIVE/DEAD staining, and germination capacity of the ascospores, demonstrated that all three lichen were quite resistant to outer space conditions, which include the full spectrum of solar extraterrestrial electromagnetic radiation or selected wavelength ranges. This high resistance of the lichens to space appears to be due to their symbiotic nature and protection by their upper pigmented layer, the cortex. In contrast, the rock- or halite-inhabiting bacteria were severely damaged by the same exposure. After atmospheric re-entry, the granite of the Stone sample was transformed into a glassy, nearly homogenous material, with several friction striae. None of the lichen cells survived this re-entry process. The data suggest that lichens are suitable candidates for testing the concept of lithopanspermia, because they are extremely resistant to the harsh environment of outer space. The more critical event is the atmospheric re-entry after being captured by a planet. Experiments simulating the re-entry process of a microbe-carrying meteoroid did not show any survivors.

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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Calilasseia » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:22 pm

Meanwhile ...

Effect Of Shadowing On Survival Of Bacteria Under Conditions Simulating The Martian Atmosphere And UV Radiation by Shariff Osman, Zan Peeters, Myron T. La Duc, Rocco Mancinelli, Pascale Ehrenfreund and Kasthuri Venkateswaran, Applied and Environmental Microbiology, 74(4): 959-970 (February 2008) [Full paper downloadable from here]
Osman et al, 2008 wrote:Spacecraft-associated spores and four non-spore-forming bacterial isolates were prepared in Atacama Desert soil suspensions and tested both in solution and in a desiccated state to elucidate the shadowing effect of soil particulates on bacterial survival under simulated Martian atmospheric and UV irradiation conditions. All non-spore-forming cells that were prepared in nutrient-depleted, 0.2-m-filtered desert soil (DSE) microcosms and desiccated for 75 days on aluminum died, whereas cells prepared similarly in 60-m-filtered desert soil (DS) microcosms survived such conditions. Among the bacterial cells tested, Microbacterium schleiferi and Arthrobacter sp. exhibited elevated resistance to 254-nm UV irradiation (low-pressure Hg lamp), and their survival indices were comparable to those of DS- and DSE-associated Bacillus pumilus spores. Desiccated DSE-associated spores survived exposure to full Martian UV irradiation (200 to 400 nm) for 5 min and were only slightly affected by Martian atmospheric conditions in the absence of UV irradiation. Although prolonged UV irradiation (5 min to 12 h) killed substantial portions of the spores in DSE microcosms (5- to 6-log reduction with Martian UV irradiation), dramatic survival of spores was apparent in DS-spore microcosms. The survival of soil-associated wild-type spores under Martian conditions could have repercussions for forward contamination of extraterrestrial environments, especially Mars.

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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Calilasseia » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:27 pm

Also, see this:
Abstract

On board of the NASA Long Duration Exposure Facility (LDEF), spores of Bacillus subtilis in monolayers (106/sample) or multilayers (108/sample) were exposed to the space environment for nearly six years and their survival was analyzed after retrieval. The response to space parameters, such as vacuum (10-6 Pa), solar electromagnetic radiation up to the highly energetic vacuum-ultraviolet range (109 J/m2) and/or cosmic radiation (4.8 Gy), was studied and compared to the results of a simultaneously running ground control experiment. If shielded against solar ultraviolet (UV)-radiation, up to 80 % of spores in multilayers survive in space. Solar UV-radiation, being the most deleterious parameter of space, reduces survival by 4 orders of magnitude or more. However, up to 104 viable spores were still recovered, even in completely unprotected samples. Substances, such as glucose or buffer salts serve as chemical protectants. With this 6 year study in space, experimental data are provided to the discussion on the likelihood of "Panspermia".

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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Calilasseia » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:33 pm

See also several relevant posts of mine starting from here.

One of the wonderful ironies, is that some multicellular eukaryotes (e.g., Tardigrades) are better suited to survive space than bacteria.

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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Tyrannical » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:15 pm

The more critical event is the atmospheric re-entry after being captured by a planet. Experiments simulating the re-entry process of a microbe-carrying meteoroid did not show any survivors.
I wonder under what circumstances they tested reentry. It seems to me there could be a wide variety of variables, some of which could significantly reduce the violent nature of reentry. Could an organism bearing rock be captured by a planet's gravity and more gently break up and rain down over time? They have a pretty good idea under what circumstances it won't survive, they now need to spend some time thinking up plausible scenarios where an organism could survive reentry.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: Moon Poop

Post by Mysturji » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:57 pm

rainbow wrote:
Mysturji wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Mysturji wrote:While bacteria can survive (read: be preserved) in harsh conditions such as those found in space, in order to "thrive and flourish" they need a rather more hospitable environment.

So these guys are wrong?: http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/extremophile.html

Are you going to tell them?
No. You are wrong. That is a more hospitable environment than space. As I said.
I see. Have any studies been done?
Yes. For a start, there's water there.
:roll: :airwank:
Sir Figg Newton wrote:If I have seen further than others, it is only because I am surrounded by midgets.
Cormac wrote:Doom predictors have been with humans right through our history. They are like the proverbial stopped clock - right twice a day, but not due to the efficacy of their prescience.
IDMD2
I am a twit.

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