Greek civil war, when not if

[Tyrannical]

Zougla.gr just released a new poll, Golden Dawn is in first at 22.6%. Zougla polling was also the most accurate when it came to GD numbers from the last election.
I think the time for considering they are the party of a tiny minority is over.

What's interesting is they also asked if the election was tomorrow, what party do you think would come in first. GD only scored 8.5%, which I think shows most voters AND GD members had no idea the party has gained this much ground.

Article in English via google. It's quite a long poll, the graphs with party names are still in Greek but you'll figure it out.
http://translate.google.com.au/translat ... on&act=url

Looks like a legitimate news site
http://www.zougla.gr/

[Jason]

I don't know about that shit, but I like that the site doesn't have any accessible whois information, or so it seems.

[Tyrannical]

Not that I speak Greek, but the main site looks like a typical normal news website. I at least didn't notice any swastika t-shirt adds. Probably their right of Fox news though.

[Tyrannical]

The Guardian still worried about Golden Dawn......

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/d ... haloliakos

Officials in the two-party coalition led by prime minister Antonis Samaras privately admit that secret polls conducted on behalf of the governing New Democrats and Pasok Socialists reveal even higher approval ratings. "One poll showed them getting 17%," said a well-placed insider. "They may have become socially less acceptable but it would be naive to think that Golden Dawn is over."

Greek municipal elections are only six months away, so we don't have too long to wait.

[Warren Dew]

Socially "less" acceptable? By cracking down on political leaders just because their party had one criminal in it - when the far left parties are also murdering Golden Dawn members - the government is making them more socially acceptable, not less.

Samaras needs to defang their extremist tendencies by listening to them and addressing their legitimate issues, rather than just persecuting them.

[Tyrannical]

The less socially acceptable statement just shows that the Left can't wrap it around their heads why people vote for Golden Dawn. GD is more popular than ever because it has become socially acceptable. The attacks against GD are almost comical, they held a huge rally in Athens and sources like Reuters claimed only about a thousand members showed up, while the Greek police reported around 15,000. GD claims it was 40-50K.

But the poor turnout of just a few hundred sympathisers showed Golden Dawn is still struggling to recover from the action of the authorities

More than a few hundred



Samaras knows if GD comes to power through elections he and many other Greek politicians will be sitting in jail cells under real corruption charges. I don't see them backing down from their persecution of GD because the stakes are too high, and there is not a lot they can do to appease GD supporters. I hope it does not come down to civil war, but the window for compromise pretty much closed after the mass arrest of the GD leadership. Samaras and several others would have to step down and plead guilty to illegally arresting the GD leadership to avoid a war, and I don't see that happening.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I really hate to see your vicarious gloating over an economically crippled nation's clutching at political straws. I love Greece - worked there for years and seeing this disgusting, xenophobic scum exploiting their desperate plight makes me puke.

What do they really offer? A fucking scapegoat. "It's all the foreigners' fault. If only we kicked out everyone that's not pure-bred Greek, we would be fine." BULLSHIT! It's the rich Greeks that have payed literally NOTHING in taxes for decades - living in mansions in Kolonaki while declaring a subsistence income, along with successive governments whose response to dwindling tax returns has been to raise taxes on those that can't afford to dodge them - that have caused the problems.

These cunts, should they ever gain a majority, will just fuck things over some more - having no policies other than insane, racist nationalism.

[Warren Dew]

I don't see them backing down from their persecution of GD because the stakes are too high, and there is not a lot they can do to appease GD supporters.

I think there are things they could do to bring some of those supporters back. One they are already doing: implementing sensible supply side economic policies, lowering taxes and cutting government spending, which has allowed them to get the government budget to break even before interest payments. They could stand to do more of the same. The other is that they could take a hard, detached look at the issue of immigrants, and get rid of the illegals who are not contributing to the economy and paying taxes.

[JimC]

I really hate to see your vicarious gloating over an economically crippled nation's clutching at political straws. I love Greece - worked there for years and seeing this disgusting, xenophobic scum exploiting their desperate plight makes me puke.

What do they really offer? A fucking scapegoat. "It's all the foreigners' fault. If only we kicked out everyone that's not pure-bred Greek, we would be fine." BULLSHIT! It's the rich Greeks that have payed literally NOTHING in taxes for decades - living in mansions in Kolonaki while declaring a subsistence income, along with successive governments whose response to dwindling tax returns has been to raise taxes on those that can't afford to dodge them - that have caused the problems.

These cunts, should they ever gain a majority, will just fuck things over some more - having no policies other than insane, racist nationalism.

Generally, I agree. However, from all I've read, the economic woes cannot simply be all laid at the doors of the rich. The Greek population has been deluding itself for years about the economic realities of the majority avoiding paying much of their legitimate tax burden, absurd feather-bedding in government jobs, and a refusal to do anything about a fairly pervasive culture of corruption in all sectors. Whatever, Golden Dawn will not be a path to a better future...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I really hate to see your vicarious gloating over an economically crippled nation's clutching at political straws. I love Greece - worked there for years and seeing this disgusting, xenophobic scum exploiting their desperate plight makes me puke.

What do they really offer? A fucking scapegoat. "It's all the foreigners' fault. If only we kicked out everyone that's not pure-bred Greek, we would be fine." BULLSHIT! It's the rich Greeks that have payed literally NOTHING in taxes for decades - living in mansions in Kolonaki while declaring a subsistence income, along with successive governments whose response to dwindling tax returns has been to raise taxes on those that can't afford to dodge them - that have caused the problems.

These cunts, should they ever gain a majority, will just fuck things over some more - having no policies other than insane, racist nationalism.

Generally, I agree. However, from all I've read, the economic woes cannot simply be all laid at the doors of the rich. The Greek population has been deluding itself for years about the economic realities of the majority avoiding paying much of their legitimate tax burden, absurd feather-bedding in government jobs, and a refusal to do anything about a fairly pervasive culture of corruption in all sectors. Whatever, Golden Dawn will not be a path to a better future...

Of course you are right. I was over-simplifying to some degree. Tax evasion is a national sport there, as is corruption and the black economy. Sadly though, it is those least able to "play the game" - those in government jobs or other, easily monitored employment - that bear the brunt, seeing their tax burden raised, year on year, while the self-employed and the wealthy dodge it all.

If Greece is ever to become the country it wants to be, it will require a roots-to-branches demolition of an entrenched system of graft and duplicity. If anyone is under the impression that the Golden Dork can provide that, they are sadly deluded. They will simply blame immigrants for everything while lining their own pockets. Meh.

[Warren Dew]

Sadly though, it is those least able to "play the game" - those in government jobs or other, easily monitored employment - that bear the brunt, seeing their tax burden raised, year on year, while the self-employed and the wealthy dodge it all.

You mean the goverment workers that got 14 months of pay each year and retired at 50? Hardly "bearing the brunt".

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Sadly though, it is those least able to "play the game" - those in government jobs or other, easily monitored employment - that bear the brunt, seeing their tax burden raised, year on year, while the self-employed and the wealthy dodge it all.

You mean the goverment workers that got 14 months of pay each year and retired at 50? Hardly "bearing the brunt".

You think that's happening now? Go check again.

[JimC]

Sadly though, it is those least able to "play the game" - those in government jobs or other, easily monitored employment - that bear the brunt, seeing their tax burden raised, year on year, while the self-employed and the wealthy dodge it all.

You mean the goverment workers that got 14 months of pay each year and retired at 50? Hardly "bearing the brunt".

You think that's happening now? Go check again.

They may be getting a very bad deal now, but there were ridiculous rorts in the past, which made their contribution to the current mess.

The austerity measures may well have been a swing of the pendulum too far, and people are undoubtedly suffering, while the seriously rich probably are not, which is clearly unfair.

But chickens do come home to roost, and a fool's paradise for the public sector could not be sustained forever...

[Warren Dew]

Sadly though, it is those least able to "play the game" - those in government jobs or other, easily monitored employment - that bear the brunt, seeing their tax burden raised, year on year, while the self-employed and the wealthy dodge it all.

You mean the goverment workers that got 14 months of pay each year and retired at 50? Hardly "bearing the brunt".

You think that's happening now? Go check again.

They were cut back to 12 months of pay per year, and have to wait until 55 to retire. Pure torture, eh?

[Hermit]

Interesting times ahead in Greece. I'm hearing that some polls that the media doesn't like to advertise has Golden Dawn in first place with 22% support, and that was before two Golden Dawn members were murdered. The US embassy is also rumored to have conducted a poll a few weeks ago that put GD nearly in first.
Looks to me that arresting the GD leaders has back fired.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30975437
Sunset for the Golden Dawn. 6%