More Aussie non-believers

[JimC]

From today's Age

Growing numbers of young Australians record no religion in census

Lauren Keim was raised a Catholic and regularly went to church as a teenager. But she never believed in God and realised at 12 she had always been an atheist. It was easier for her as a child to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

''I had good evidence for those things and no evidence for good of any sort of higher power,'' she said. ''Santa came every year and delivered me presents; it was pretty hard to argue with that concrete evidence.''

Ms Keim, 34, of East Brunswick, who has a number of university degrees, is not unusual for her generation. As a Social Trends report by the Australian Bureau of Statistics highlights, the young and those with degrees are more likely to eschew any religious identification.

Just under 4.8 million Australians, or 22 per cent of the population, stated they had no religion on census forms two years ago. The fastest growth was in those aged 15 to 34.

The trend is accelerating. In 1911, Australia was unusual in giving its citizens an option of saying they had no religion on census forms. Then just 10,000 people did so, or 0.4 per cent of the population.

From 1971 onwards, the bureau notes, those reporting no religion has risen by about 4 percentage points a decade.

Is this the onward march of the scientific values of the Enlightenment and a victory for non-believers over the religious?

It is not entirely clear. Few people defined further what they meant by ''no religion'' with just 58,899 describing themselves as atheists and 34,632 as agnostic. More people identified as a Star Wars Jedi than as an atheist.

Monash University Professor Emeritus Gary Bouma said choosing to say you identify with a religion or not told us only so much.

''This is a matter of no longer it being culturally necessary to have a religion,'' he said. ''These things are about saying you don't have a religion, a lot of it is a rejection of institutions, a rejection of conformity. These people might be very spiritual.''

Professor Bouma, an Anglican priest, said a more individualistic age also meant each person was more responsible for ''having to negotiate their spirituality''.

The Social Trends report also notes some characteristics of those who say they have no religion.

Nearly half of same-sex couples report no religion, more than twice the rate of the overall Australian population. And for those with a postgraduate degree, 31 per cent reported no religion, compared with one in five people with a high school education.

Ms Keim, who has an honours degree in science, said she had a ''real distrust of the concept of faith''.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/growi ... z2lbfnfk3E

[klr]

Good stuff. Now, we just have to work on all those people who described themselves as Jedi.

[JimC]

Good stuff. Now, we just have to work on all those people who described themselves as Jedi.

We could apply Force...

[klr]

Nah, the new Star Wars movie will be so bad that it will cause all the census Jedis to lose their faith.

[Jason]

No! There is another?

Help you I can. Yes. Mmmm.

Let go and rely on instinct.

[JimC]

Gotta love Anglican Priests - they put the wishy in wishy-washy!

Monash University Professor Emeritus Gary Bouma said choosing to say you identify with a religion or not told us only so much.
''This is a matter of no longer it being culturally necessary to have a religion,'' he said. ''These things are about saying you don't have a religion, a lot of it is a rejection of institutions, a rejection of conformity. These people might be very spiritual.''
Professor Bouma, an Anglican priest, said a more individualistic age also meant each person was more responsible for ''having to negotiate their spirituality''.

[Jason]

I have no problem with religions if they help people. Some people need something to 'believe' in, or they'd just break down. Both of my parents for two. I think more atheists need to read more Joseph Campbell and less [whoever the rabid anti-theist du jour is].

Then the inevitable question: Does religion [singular] hurt more than it helps?

Well, you can't just lump every religion into one pile and expect to rationally address the question. That's a logical fallacy. I won't name it. Look it up if you don't know.

Follow up question: Does religion X do more harm than good?

Maybe. Do some proper research. Qualify 'harm' and then quantify it. Do the same for 'good'. Don't bring fucking anecdotes and lay them down as evidence for the evils of religion X. That's just not science. That's what Dickie Dawkins did in his channel 4 specials.

Retort: Child molestation, mental abuse [even by instilling ideas, concepts, and beliefs that are FALSE!], etc ad nauseum.

Bad people do bad things.
Instilling ideas, concepts, and beliefs is not abuse if ( it were, then every fucking school, library, college, university, television network, et al must be burned to ashes so society can cleanse itself of all potentially false preconcepts).
I almost forgot, you cannot claim on any basis that religious teachings are false. It is possible some uberbeing did squeeze out matter, space and time in divinely wet shit we call the Big Bang.

If a person believes in god, God, gods, or Gods, and it helps them through life, great. If the anti-theist washboard heads want my support they're going to have to engage in a lot of real scientific study on the subject, not anecdotal and rhetorical bullshit.

Penultimate riposte of the anti-theist: Religion is divisive and kills people.

Bullshit. People have been finding reasons to kill each other for millenia. Almost invariably for political reasons [power games] or want/need of resources someone else has. Religion is a convenient rallying banner and a cloak under which power gamers conceal the dagger of their intent. Large scale conflict is not down to religion. Any ideology will do. Say.. communism.

Mmm.. yeah. Lost my place. I know there's a lot more anti-theist bullshit to address, but my hamburger helper is burning. Incidentally, I'm not a theist [which technically makes me an atheist, though I don't like to identify that way because of the unavoidable association with unthinking idiots - often by unthinking idiots].

[Jason]

I should add that the above isn't an attack on anyone here.. I just took a rage dump.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

...Incidentally, I'm not a theist [which technically makes me an atheist, though I don't like to identify that way because of the unavoidable association with unthinking idiots - often by unthinking idiots].

[Audley Strange]

Bad people do bad things.

The main problem is people who think they are good who do bad things but think that such bad things are magically transformed to good or necessary evil things because such things are being committed by the good.

I think we can look at bad people, people who know they are bad and don't give a shit and see that in comparison to the atrocities committed by the "good" they are pretty low rent. Ted Bundy was under no illusion he was doing wrong, Pol Pot thought he was doing right.

So how do people get to the conclusion they are good in the first place without becoming slaves to a rigid moral code with a checklist of such to tell them? To me that's always been one of the tricks of religion. It makes its rules so comprehensive and contradictory that the faithful cannot help but be a sinner. This is a fearful proposition allowing them to be more easily persuaded into behaving as instructed.

[Jason]

Thing is.. I am superior. ;-)

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Thing is.. I am superior. ;-)

Yep. Just like everybody else.

[Jason]

[redacted]

I don't feel playful today.

[pErvinalia]

Gotta love Anglican Priests - they put the wishy in wishy-washy!

Monash University Professor Emeritus Gary Bouma said choosing to say you identify with a religion or not told us only so much.
''This is a matter of no longer it being culturally necessary to have a religion,'' he said. ''These things are about saying you don't have a religion, a lot of it is a rejection of institutions, a rejection of conformity. These people might be very spiritual.''
Professor Bouma, an Anglican priest, said a more individualistic age also meant each person was more responsible for ''having to negotiate their spirituality''.

What a goose. But he is near the point in one respect. I think a lot of people in Australia (obviously less so with the passing of time) are culturally Christian for the purposes of a census, but wouldn't give God more than a passing thought in any given month or year.

[DaveDodo007]

...Incidentally, I'm not a theist [which technically makes me an atheist, though I don't like to identify that way because of the unavoidable association with unthinking idiots - often by unthinking idiots].

What about thinking idiots?