Boeing 787

[klr]

Let's hope the Boeing and GE share prices are the only things that nosedive.

From the article:

He said GE and Boeing were hoping to eliminate the problem by modifying the engine control system software.

This does not inspire confidence - see my post about about the millions of lines of undocumented code.

[cronus]

Let's hope the Boeing and GE share prices are the only things that nosedive.

From the article:

He said GE and Boeing were hoping to eliminate the problem by modifying the engine control system software.

This does not inspire confidence - see my post about about the millions of lines of undocumented code.

Easy to make numbers vanish in software whether they matter or not, and most likely they will matter.

[Warren Dew]

I'm not sure that's right, about this being the only plane affected by icing problems. I've heard of previous icing problems on Rolls-Royce powered planes as well. They have had to make modifications to their fuel systems, among other things.
There was an instance of water in the fuel freezing, and the plane losing power after long flights in cold conditions.
A plane crashed short of the runway at Heathrow, because of ice in the fuel causing a blockage.

And it appears in this case that it's the engine, not the plane itself, that has a problem. Some of the Dreamliners have Rolls Royce engines, and they don't mention a problem with them.

I think what they're saying is that this is the only plane with this specific GEnx engine icing problem. Other planes have other icing problems.

[Jason]

The 747-8 and the 787 are the only aircraft to use the GEnx engine so far. So, yep. They're the only ones with this particular problem.

I might fly on a 787 in about 10 years when it's lost its baby teeth.

[klr]

The 747-8 and the 787 are the only aircraft to use the GEnx engine so far. So, yep. They're the only ones with this particular problem.

I might fly on a 787 in about 10 years when it's lost its baby teeth.

Or possibly ever, unless GE sorts this out pronto. Suddenly, exploding Rolls Royce engines don't seem so bad.

[klr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25737515

Boeing 787 aircraft grounded after battery problem in Japan

Japan Airlines has grounded a Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft after detecting smoke or gases that may have come from faults with the main battery.

The problem was discovered during routine maintenance, and is a reminder of the battery faults that grounded all 787s for three months last year.

The airline said engineers noticed smoke, and then warning lights flashed signalling a battery fault.

Boeing said it was aware of the issue and is working with Japan Airlines.

The aircraft maker said that early indications suggested that a single battery cell had released gases, and that the warning system had operated as planned.

No passengers were on board.

The company's shares price initially fell 1.5%, but eased backed later.

Any 787 battery problem is a sensitive issue. The worldwide fleet of Dreamliners was grounded last year while investigators looked into why two batteries on separate aircraft overheated in less than two weeks.

Boeing redesigned the battery system, although the precise cause of the problem was never conclusively proved.

Richard Westcott, the BBC's transport correspondent, said: "Boeing says it appears that one cell within the lithium ion battery had gone wrong. The number of cells is highly significant.

"There are eight in total for each battery, and if the chemicals spread from one to the next it can potentially start a fire.

"Boeing never did solve the battery problem that grounded the entire Dreamliner fleet last year. Instead, Boeing put in a raft of safety measures to contain any future issues."

There are 115 Dreamliners currently flying with 16 customers.

[Tero]

Invent a new battery without dimethylcarbonate and your employer can be rich.

[Warren Dew]

They need Tesla's proprietary Lithium Ion battery management software.

[mistermack]

You would think that if that if only one cell goes duff, then you should be finding out why the others don't, and try to replicate those conditions. And if other planes have batteries that don't catch fire, then there might be some clues there.

Big money involved though, whatever the outcome.

[Calilasseia]

Amongst other things, much of the flight control software (c. 17 million lines of code) was subcontracted out to Russian and Indian programmers. Of course, now no-one has a clue how it all works. If it works ...

Oh deep joy.

I had a "yawning chasm of hurt" moment back in 1998, when I worked (briefly) for a company that was producing an application being used in "mission critical" situations. Such as guiding ambulances successfully to patients in dire medical need.

During my tenure at this workplace, I discovered that one of the ambulance services using the company's product had a different version of the software. The reason it was different? It had been subject to on-site modification of the code. . But, said code modifications were never brought back to base. Worse still, said code modifications were undocumented code modifications.

The moment I learned this, I thought "Oh lovely, lawsuit city".

Needless to say, I was very glad when that company decided not to keep me on during a "restructuring".

As a consequence, learning that the 787 relies on seventeen million lines of undocumented code to stay aloft ... ye fucking gods of all stars. That is a disaster of Titanic proportions just waiting to happen, and yes, I mean both senses of "Titanic".

By way of comparison, when I went for an interview shortly after with British Aerospace (as then was), I was told that failure to document code adequately was not only considered a sacking offence there, but opened the possibility of criminal proceedings. Concentrates the mind wonderfully when you're told that, though of course, I understood the reason why - the last thing BAe wanted was for one of its aircraft to fall out of the sky because of a bug arising from badly documented code, with the attendant damages suit that would result. Likewise, when I went for an interview with the people who build Ariane rockets (known at the time as Matra Marconi Space), I was told more or less the same - document ALL code with ruthless attention to detail, or else, because the company didn't want to face the possibility of one of their satellite launches going rogue, and paying the then forthcoming International Space Station a "trick or treat" visit involving collision speeds of several miles per second.

If there isn't a central repository staffed by requisite experts, going over that 17 million lines of code with a fine tooth comb before signing it off, Boeing is staring the mother of all class actions in the face. It only takes one bug bringing a 787 down in the middle of Washington DC, and the shitstorm will make Hurricane Katrina look like a earwig's fart.

[Warren Dew]

You would think that if that if only one cell goes duff, then you should be finding out why the others don't, and try to replicate those conditions. And if other planes have batteries that don't catch fire, then there might be some clues there.

I'm pretty sure the 787 is the first plane to use lithium ion batteries extensively.

[Tero]

You only need less than $129 in electronics to get a plane in the air:
http://www.nitroplanes.com/60a-dy8937-t ... tract.html
wonder how many lines of code?

[Clinton Huxley]

If god had meant us to fly he'd have put the French further away.

[klr]

If god had meant us to fly he'd have put the French further away.

God underestimated Louis Blériot.

[JimC]

If god had meant us to fly he'd have put the French further away.

God underestimated Louis Blériot.

Who would have had St Vincent turning in his grave:

"Gentlemen, I do not say they cannot come. I only say they cannot come by sea."