Calling all MRA's...

[Seabass]

I identify as a HYDRA, but I aspire to be a SPECTRE some day.

It is probably beyond your mental capacity but I do love an optimist.

It's a tough gig to get in to.

[Audley Strange]

I do see where you are coming from and I like your posts here more then anybodies else here. Though in the last three years I have seen the nicest most decent men destroyed by the family courts and one great mentor of mine accuse of peadophilia on the most hearsy of hearsy grounds. I really I'm losing it with the gynoccracy as there is no level they will sink to, to destroy good men. I have to stand by while two good friends of mine committed suicide and another is in jail on well no evidence what so ever. Another 11 of the are now druggies or alcoholics, how long should I hold my peace? How long should I not care for my friends? How long should I avoid not being calling a misogynist just because I'm not prepared to stand by any longer? I have let them down for so long now that I'm ashamed by my previous behaviour (I brought into the feminist bullshit) well no longer. fuck them if I hear a feminist I will tell her to fuck off the fucking twat. If I meet a white knight mangina I will laugh at the castrated gobshite and mock the friendzoned piece of shit. Enough is enough and fuck feminism and all who sail on her.

The problem is Dave that if one is going to complain about the pernicious effects of radicalised and victim feminism then one has to be very cautious and not end up spitting bile like an adherent of Valerie Solanas.

As you may be aware (or not) I've been critical of certain feminist bullshit on this forum, but to me my issue goes back a lot further than that canine anal fistula disguised as a man P.Z. Myer's pathetic attacks on this place. The problem as I see it is not that women in general are somehow characters from the bible, where they are all malevolent harpies but rather that for the longest time any debate or criticism of their gender politics was loudly pronounced an attack against all women. "Sexist!" was the "Fascist!" of the late eighties and since many well educated white middle class people suffer from "right on" guilt, they automatically took the position that if they had been accused of it, they must be. As I began to notice that this was a tactic to silence critics and explain that such was not a rebuttal, I also noticed brighter minds than I saying the same thing.

Frankly I admire their tactics as revolting as they are. Undermining the person is enough. If you claim the person is a rape apologist, then why would you explain anything to them? The second tactic is to make all sorts of contradictory stupid and downright embarrassing claims about psychological, social and sexual relationships that seem to be pulled out from an arse and then when called on it claim "Feminism is not about that it's only about equal rights."

Feminism is not about equal rights. It may have been. It's not now. What it seems to me it is about now is a way of making any claim legitimate by saying any criticism of that claim is an attack on all womankind. As long as people are scared about being accused of being misogynists or rape apologisers then this will continue. We have allowed the debate to go one way for so long, but what has been clear over the last couple of years is that less people are willing to be silenced by their accusations.

However, accusing someone of being a white-knighting mangina pussy, is just the same as accusing someone of being a Rape Enabling woman hating piece of shit. That rhetoric now exposes a person as being unsound unwilling to be flexible and thoroughly convinced of their own righteousness.

I see no difference between MGOTW's ranting like that and Lesbian Separatist Rad Fems babbling on about Patriarchal rape cultures. It's just overwrought melodrama. It's a presposterous scorched-earth policy to a nominal problem. If you want nothing to do with the opposite sex, why the fuck do they keep going on about them? Why is their whole worldview based on the hated of them.

Tar-babies.

[DaveDodo007]

I do see where you are coming from and I like your posts here more then anybodies else here. Though in the last three years I have seen the nicest most decent men destroyed by the family courts and one great mentor of mine accuse of peadophilia on the most hearsy of hearsy grounds. I really I'm losing it with the gynoccracy as there is no level they will sink to, to destroy good men. I have to stand by while two good friends of mine committed suicide and another is in jail on well no evidence what so ever. Another 11 of the are now druggies or alcoholics, how long should I hold my peace? How long should I not care for my friends? How long should I avoid not being calling a misogynist just because I'm not prepared to stand by any longer? I have let them down for so long now that I'm ashamed by my previous behaviour (I brought into the feminist bullshit) well no longer. fuck them if I hear a feminist I will tell her to fuck off the fucking twat. If I meet a white knight mangina I will laugh at the castrated gobshite and mock the friendzoned piece of shit. Enough is enough and fuck feminism and all who sail on her.

The problem is Dave that if one is going to complain about the pernicious effects of radicalised and victim feminism then one has to be very cautious and not end up spitting bile like an adherent of Valerie Solanas.

As you may be aware (or not) I've been critical of certain feminist bullshit on this forum, but to me my issue goes back a lot further than that canine anal fistula disguised as a man P.Z. Myer's pathetic attacks on this place. The problem as I see it is not that women in general are somehow characters from the bible, where they are all malevolent harpies but rather that for the longest time any debate or criticism of their gender politics was loudly pronounced an attack against all women. "Sexist!" was the "Fascist!" of the late eighties and since many well educated white middle class people suffer from "right on" guilt, they automatically took the position that if they had been accused of it, they must be. As I began to notice that this was a tactic to silence critics and explain that such was not a rebuttal, I also noticed brighter minds than I saying the same thing.

Frankly I admire their tactics as revolting as they are. Undermining the person is enough. If you claim the person is a rape apologist, then why would you explain anything to them? The second tactic is to make all sorts of contradictory stupid and downright embarrassing claims about psychological, social and sexual relationships that seem to be pulled out from an arse and then when called on it claim "Feminism is not about that it's only about equal rights."

Feminism is not about equal rights. It may have been. It's not now. What it seems to me it is about now is a way of making any claim legitimate by saying any criticism of that claim is an attack on all womankind. As long as people are scared about being accused of being misogynists or rape apologisers then this will continue. We have allowed the debate to go one way for so long, but what has been clear over the last couple of years is that less people are willing to be silenced by their accusations.

However, accusing someone of being a white-knighting mangina pussy, is just the same as accusing someone of being a Rape Enabling woman hating piece of shit. That rhetoric now exposes a person as being unsound unwilling to be flexible and thoroughly convinced of their own righteousness.

I see no difference between MGOTW's ranting like that and Lesbian Separatist Rad Fems babbling on about Patriarchal rape cultures. It's just overwrought melodrama. It's a presposterous scorched-earth policy to a nominal problem. If you want nothing to do with the opposite sex, why the fuck do they keep going on about them? Why is their whole worldview based on the hated of them.

Tar-babies.

I do agree with most of your post as you seem to have thrown away any rose tinted glasses you have. Though I do have to take issue with your last paragraph. Nobody would normally choose to be a MGTOW as it was forced on them, just using any cost/benefit analysis would show that in the West getting married, having children, dating a single mum or even living with a woman leaves you open to the full force of the law which has been shown time and time again to have a bias against men. I don't blame any man for GTOW as what other choice do they have. A lot of MGTOW still date they just take every precaution that they can because of the toxic laws that can and often are used against men. Unlike any of the feminist they are not asking for any rules to be changed as they have seem the scorn heaped on the MRAs and know it is pointless in the West. They just want a stress free life and to be left alone and I for one don't blame or judge them for it.

[Audley Strange]

No I don't blame any man or woman for making a choice to avoid any form of relationship with those of the opposite sex, if they find such relationships problematic and yes I do think that if one looks at the way the law is regarding men's rights towards their children and their genetic material it could be found wanting. However those laws have been in place for quite a while, it is not a ramification of this wave of twitter feminism. The issue with the assumption of "mother as primary caregiver" is a traditional one, it is only that when women in marriages were given access to legal autonomy outside of their husband's domain that this traditional assumption was granted outside of the marriage. That assumption makes a mockery of both men and women. but can't be laid at the feet of radical feminism but lazy politicians. So yes I can see why some men might want to split the scene. I've been saying for years that men should take better charge of their sexual habits and own their semen, rather splashing it up some random for 10 seconds of fun and spending the next 25 regretting fertilising a Harridan.

Again, to me what is the issue is that the current mob are engaged in a polemical cultural critique, claiming it found truth and demanding we all validate whatever emotional state they are going through as objective reality, while claiming victim status to protect themselves from the same criticism and invective they are engaging in. When it comes to things like "The Bechdel Test" it, to me seems like it's paraded around like a piece of received wisdom, (like a lot of rhetoric) like it means something profound, however it doesn't. Frankly it speaks to me of the paucity of movies watched by Alison Bechdel at that time in her life, but even more than that, as I said, its a piece of cultural critique about, at best, Hollywood movies. It is of little value.

So there are two discussions, one is the unfairness of a legal system that devalues both men and women (welcome to equality ) and the others is a bunch of frankly useless people doing nothing but wandering around complaining that anything they find that they think is unfair is because of some Matrix Style control system. The former is not going to listen to ranting, the latter do little else.

[Robert_S]

Or an alternative question: Why do we even need metrics of gender portrayal in movies?

Why do we need movies?

Because we really like watching them.

That's a want, not a need.

"Why would they be useful or interesting?" would have been a better question.

I'd like to see the results of some kind of quantitative way of looking at trends in gender portrayals and tropes between genres and over time. I mean, if we're annoyed at white knights, why not take a critical look at the Damsel in Distress trope? If we're complaining about women blaming all their problems on men and not exercising enough autonomy, why not take a look at how many movies have all the action centred around the males? The same goes for TV shows.

I'm not saying that the media culture exerts total mind control. But for those of us that consume it, it surely has some influence. You don't look at anything or follow any story without strengthening some neural paths. And just as I don't advocate censorship, I have no problem with people making judgements about, and trying to influence the greater culture.

[JimC]

Robert S wrote:

And just as I don't advocate censorship, I have no problem with people making judgements about, and trying to influence the greater culture.

Without censorship, you can do that by making your opinion on the issue known to friends, and by voting with your feet when it comes to which movies you see.

Anything else will stray into strident political correctness territory...

[Tyrannical]

Cooking, cleaning and child rearing are all great female topics that in no way should involve a man. Or is that not what they had in mind?

[Jason]

Just don't aim too high. Not everyone is cut out to be a Lannister./

[DaveDodo007]

Or an alternative question: Why do we even need metrics of gender portrayal in movies?

Why do we need movies?

Because we really like watching them.

That's a want, not a need.

"Why would they be useful or interesting?" would have been a better question.

I'd like to see the results of some kind of quantitative way of looking at trends in gender portrayals and tropes between genres and over time. I mean, if we're annoyed at white knights, why not take a critical look at the Damsel in Distress trope? If we're complaining about women blaming all their problems on men and not exercising enough autonomy, why not take a look at how many movies have all the action centred around the males? The same goes for TV shows.

I'm not saying that the media culture exerts total mind control. But for those of us that consume it, it surely has some influence. You don't look at anything or follow any story without strengthening some neural paths. And just as I don't advocate censorship, I have no problem with people making judgements about, and trying to influence the greater culture.

Oh for fuck sake, don't you know anything about evolutionary biology, ancient cultures and folk lore, what the fuck do you want a blank slate. If you ever get the chance to reboot the expansion of time and space then go for it otherwise keep pissing in the wind.

[Jason]

I enjoy pissing in the wind. 'The ultimate challenger' vs.0

[DaveDodo007]

Cooking, cleaning and child rearing are all great female topics that in no way should involve a man. Or is that not what they had in mind?

Your not helping, I just thought I would point that out.

[JimC]

Cooking, cleaning and child rearing are all great female topics that in no way should involve a man. Or is that not what they had in mind?

Your not helping, I just thought I would point that out.

Exactly! He needs to put on his pink rubber gloves and a frilly apron, and do the damned washing up!

[pErvinalia]

Cooking, cleaning and child rearing are all great female topics that in no way should involve a man. Or is that not what they had in mind?

Your not helping, I just thought I would point that out.

He's actually making a fair point, one that someone else also made earlier.

[Robert_S]

Oh for fuck sake, don't you know anything about evolutionary biology, ancient cultures and folk lore, what the fuck do you want a blank slate. If you ever get the chance to reboot the expansion of time and space then go for it otherwise keep pissing in the wind.

Fuck off.

And try drinking less. You aren't saying anything, just flinging words around and being a dick.

You and A+ have this in common: You're so focused on opposing that you've lost sight of anything coherent to stand FOR.

[laklak]

I just did a little tour of the MGTOW forum. I'm at a loss for words, so go see for yourself. Really, go take a look.

http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forum.php