Anti-tribalism the key to civilised behaviour

[JimC]

Laklak

I would deny that.
My out group is not based on politics or national identity. It is more based on general nastiness. People who are cruel, sadistic, dishonest, liars etc form my out group. Admittedly, that is quite a large out group.

I do not mind people disagreeing with me, as long as their reasons are intelligent and well thought out. I am happy with people of a wide political spectrum, as long as they are prepared to treat others well. Ditto nationalities. As I said before, I consider Americans as individuals to be roughly two thirds good people.

You guys are probably correct in suggesting tribalism to be a normal part of human existence. However, I see no reason why a species as flexible as Homo sapiens should not be able to modify this to permit kindness to be practised with the out group.

Tribalism is very likely an intrinsic part of a genetically based human nature, but how it manifests is susceptible to culture and education. Emotional tendencies involving hostility to out-groups, real as they often are, can be managed, sublimated and re-directed into less dangerous behaviours.

[cronus]

Laklak

I would deny that.
My out group is not based on politics or national identity. It is more based on general nastiness. People who are cruel, sadistic, dishonest, liars etc form my out group. Admittedly, that is quite a large out group.

I do not mind people disagreeing with me, as long as their reasons are intelligent and well thought out. I am happy with people of a wide political spectrum, as long as they are prepared to treat others well. Ditto nationalities. As I said before, I consider Americans as individuals to be roughly two thirds good people.

You guys are probably correct in suggesting tribalism to be a normal part of human existence. However, I see no reason why a species as flexible as Homo sapiens should not be able to modify this to permit kindness to be practised with the out group.

Tribalism is very likely an intrinsic part of a genetically based human nature, but how it manifests is susceptible to culture and education. Emotional tendencies involving hostility to out-groups, real as they often are, can be managed, sublimated and re-directed into less dangerous behaviours.

Maybe it is out-groups with hostility directed inwards that is a larger threat?

[JimC]

Doing away with unnecessary, reflex and emotional antipathy towards out-groups does not preclude the use of effective force against aggressors...

[Pappa]

Interesting approach.
To be honest, I had not thought of sporting affiliations as tribal, but you are right.

What do you think of the idea that degree of civilisation is inversely proportional to tribalism?

I think you've missed an important point. Cultures that are more "civilised" (by your definition) just tend to have larger in-groups most of the time.

[Audley Strange]

By this standard, people like Nelson Mandela.

(A convicted terrorist. A man who felt his tribe was being oppressed by another tribe, the white men.)

Mother Theresa,

(A greedy Catholic tribalist. A unpleasant religious zealot who deliberately let babies die.)

the Dalai Lama,

(A smug opportunist in his tribally significant orange sheet spouting obvious homilies. A living ornament to be wheeled out to imply vicarious wisdom and humility )

Albert Schweizer etc are the most civilised.

(Dunno much about this guy. A fundie though yeah?)

So this lot of "saints" were and are totally tribal. As we all are. The guy punching fuck out of the dude after a Rangers and Celtic match would save same dude if they were set upon by England Fans.

We all have lots of in-group and out-group networks, some more complex, not all rational. By "othering" a group, maligning them based on the things your in-group excludes is the beginning of moralism and zealoty.

"Uncivilised. Barbaric. Savagery. Sinners, Diseased, Sick, like viruses, less than human, filthy animals." These are signals, they are signals that express that the user has made a decision on the relative worth of others. This is how we dehumanise others, how we shove them into ovens. How uncivilised of you to partake of it.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

The only accurate gauge of how civilised a country is is to measure how much tea they drink per capita. Fact.

[Tyrannical]

Albert Schweizer, he was kind and compassionate, but he knew that one must always deal with certain groups from a position of authority if we are to get them to change.

Here, let me point out that chapter from his book
https://archive.org/stream/ontheedgeoft ... 3/mode/2up

[Trinity]

Have you ever read Ken Wilbur's work on evolution of consciousness? It is fascinating (if a little complex) and I would give an example here but I couldn't really put it in a nutshell. Anyway, google his name with memes, spiral, evolution as tags. If you like

[Clinton Huxley]

The only accurate gauge of how civilised a country is is to measure how much tea they drink per capita. Fact.

It's not just how much is drunk but how.....ice your tea, for example, and you advertise yourself to all the world as a savage.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

The only accurate gauge of how civilised a country is is to measure how much tea they drink per capita. Fact.

It's not just how much is drunk but how.....ice your tea, for example, and you advertise yourself to all the world as a savage.

I have to confess that I once drank iced tea...from a tin can.
What can I say? I was young and impressionable.

[cronus]

The only accurate gauge of how civilised a country is is to measure how much tea they drink per capita. Fact.

Try telling that to tommorow's boffins with their aztec pyramids and coco leaf beverages.

[Clinton Huxley]

The only accurate gauge of how civilised a country is is to measure how much tea they drink per capita. Fact.

It's not just how much is drunk but how.....ice your tea, for example, and you advertise yourself to all the world as a savage.

I have to confess that I once drank iced tea...from a tin can.
What can I say? I was young and impressionable.

Good grief, man! Better by far to admit to admit to a French relative than that.

[Blind groper]

I think you've missed an important point. Cultures that are more "civilised" (by your definition) just tend to have larger in-groups most of the time.

That is a probably valid point.
I would suggest that when you include the entire global village as your in group, you are showing a high degree of civilised behaviour.

[JimC]

The only accurate gauge of how civilised a country is is to measure how much gin they drink per capita. Fact.

:fixed: