Any rapid change in environmental conditions is bad, regardless of direction. Surely this does not need explaining?Seth wrote:You haven't explained adequately why getting warmer is a bad thing...macdoc wrote:what facts are those?? .....the ones you choose to ignore???but only if the facts didn't contradict his opinions.
That it's getting warmer and we're responsible??
You park yourself right in with the flat earth society on that count....'cept at least they have a sense of humour.
BTW Bohr was correct...Einstein wrong...reality sucks sometimes
Har Har Har Global warming crap
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



Global warming - here now and in your face
Warmer is hardly the issue, more extreme is the major issue.
Civilization grew and prospered based on a degree of stability in food crops. It's over.
Rapid change does not allow many species to adapt.
Some areas sure - warmer might be good regionally....SIberia, Canada, the North Coast of the Baltic...even the Sahel is greening up, but then Spain and Southern Italy are turning to desert as the Sahara climate band shifts north as the tropics expand.
Unlike the wishful thinking of the denidiots - there is no arable land in the Taiga and Tundra so there is a physical limit for arable land in the north and then there is the Himalayas hemming India and Bangladesh.
But bottom line you can't have both ways..
Is it warming Seth and are we responsible for it??
as a good libby, should the coal companies who knew the score in the 90s not be responsible for the damage their emissions have caused??
I thought taking responsibility for consequences of actions was a feature of that world view??
••••
The tough issue is what to do about it instead of the absolutely ludicrous idea that it's not happening at all.
Meanwhile the insurance companies just hammer those that are in denial and not taking steps to deal with the increased risks.
Extreme weather and flooding are the early outcomes.....
More to come...
lots more.
Civilization grew and prospered based on a degree of stability in food crops. It's over.
Rapid change does not allow many species to adapt.
Some areas sure - warmer might be good regionally....SIberia, Canada, the North Coast of the Baltic...even the Sahel is greening up, but then Spain and Southern Italy are turning to desert as the Sahara climate band shifts north as the tropics expand.
Unlike the wishful thinking of the denidiots - there is no arable land in the Taiga and Tundra so there is a physical limit for arable land in the north and then there is the Himalayas hemming India and Bangladesh.
But bottom line you can't have both ways..
Is it warming Seth and are we responsible for it??
as a good libby, should the coal companies who knew the score in the 90s not be responsible for the damage their emissions have caused??
I thought taking responsibility for consequences of actions was a feature of that world view??
••••
The tough issue is what to do about it instead of the absolutely ludicrous idea that it's not happening at all.
Meanwhile the insurance companies just hammer those that are in denial and not taking steps to deal with the increased risks.
Extreme weather and flooding are the early outcomes.....
More to come...

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- klr
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
I'd wait for some answers to the above first 

God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



- klr
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_riseSea levels around the world are rising.[2] Current sea-level rise potentially affects human populations (e.g., those living in coastal regions and on islands)[3] and the natural environment (e.g., marine ecosystems).[4] Between 1870 and 2004, global average sea levels rose 195 mm (7.7 in).[5] From 1950 to 2009, measurements show an average annual rise in sea level of 1.7 ± 0.3 mm per year, with satellite data showing a rise of 3.3 ± 0.4 mm per year from 1993 to 2009,[6] a faster rate of increase than previously estimated.[7] It is unclear whether the increased rate reflects an increase in the underlying long-term trend.
...
Now, this might seem like small potatoes to some, but that would be a big mistake. Because the rate of sea level rise is likely to increase further.
One of the nasty things about the increase in the temperature of the oceans is that - apart from all the ecosystem* and global current pattern changes - is that water expands as it heats up - well, duh! It's a double whammy: There is more water in the oceans because of global warming, and the water itself is expanding.
*Some of the most critical components in the major marine food chains are extremely sensitive to temperature change. They tend to like it cold.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
Sure it does. The earth has both warmed and cooled quickly in the past. Surprisingly, life goes on. Of the two, however, I'm much more in favor of warming that cooling, since humanity (and just about everything else) can easily survive a warmer world, but humanity, much less civilization cannot survive a period of glaciation.klr wrote:Any rapid change in environmental conditions is bad, regardless of direction. Surely this does not need explaining?Seth wrote:You haven't explained adequately why getting warmer is a bad thing...macdoc wrote:what facts are those?? .....the ones you choose to ignore???but only if the facts didn't contradict his opinions.
That it's getting warmer and we're responsible??
You park yourself right in with the flat earth society on that count....'cept at least they have a sense of humour.
BTW Bohr was correct...Einstein wrong...reality sucks sometimes
So, what we have is a "dire prediction" of a few degrees of warming and a few millimeters of sea-level rise in the next hundred years or more and so according to the Warmist fanatics it's time to panic and drive our economies to the brink of collapse, destroy our energy industry and pretty much go back to living in wattle-and-daub huts while grubbing in the earth with a sharp stick to avoid this "ecological catastrophe" that's going to happen no matter what we do today because, supposedly, the CO2 already in the atmosphere will be there for a couple of centuries regardless of anything we can possibly do.
Hey, looky over there, it's a FOREST, so get your head out of your ass and quit looking at trees.
Whatever it is that "must" be done doesn't have to happen tomorrow, or this year, or next year, or in the next decade, or in the next quarter-century or even more. There's ample time for calm, slow, sober, careful, accurate, non-political research and decision making rather than this highly-politicized. machiavellian manipulation and disinformation campaign intended to panic the proletariat into surrendering more and more liberty and sovereignty to the power brokers of the one-world government wannabes.
Why is Obama destroying the domestic US coal and oil industry? Because he can. And because it increases our dependence on international energy sources, which globalizes our interests and diminishes our sovereignty by keeping us, and making us MORE dependent on foreign energy resources which can be used as a blunt instrument to force the American public into "globalizing" (becoming the whipping-boy of angry Marxists who want to make an example of us to enforce proper Marxist obedience) and kowtowing to the rest of the planet because the US has been bad and needs to be chastened and punished.
Fuck that.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- klr
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
"Quickly" is relative. In the context of geological time-scales, "quickly" means thousands of years, often many tens of thousands, or still more. We're not talking about that here.Seth wrote:Sure it does. The earth has both warmed and cooled quickly in the past.klr wrote: ...
Any rapid change in environmental conditions is bad, regardless of direction. Surely this does not need explaining?
And equally (un)surprisingly, sometimes only after titanic upheavals, including extinction events and even mass extinctions, the effects of which may take many millions of years to play out.Seth wrote: Surprisingly, life goes on.
WTF? Seriously, WTF? Where did you pull that one out of? That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read.Seth wrote: Of the two, however, I'm much more in favor of warming that cooling, since humanity (and just about everything else) can easily survive a warmer world, but humanity, much less civilization cannot survive a period of glaciation.

A mindless rant which does not deserve and will not get any further attention. Neither will any further contributions of yours in this thread.Seth wrote: So, what we have is a "dire prediction" of a few degrees of warming and a few millimeters of sea-level rise in the next hundred years or more and so according to the Warmist fanatics it's time to panic and drive our economies to the brink of collapse, destroy our energy industry and pretty much go back to living in wattle-and-daub huts while grubbing in the earth with a sharp stick to avoid this "ecological catastrophe" that's going to happen no matter what we do today because, supposedly, the CO2 already in the atmosphere will be there for a couple of centuries regardless of anything we can possibly do.
Hey, looky over there, it's a FOREST, so get your head out of your ass and quit looking at trees.
Whatever it is that "must" be done doesn't have to happen tomorrow, or this year, or next year, or in the next decade, or in the next quarter-century or even more. There's ample time for calm, slow, sober, careful, accurate, non-political research and decision making rather than this highly-politicized. machiavellian manipulation and disinformation campaign intended to panic the proletariat into surrendering more and more liberty and sovereignty to the power brokers of the one-world government wannabes.
Why is Obama destroying the domestic US coal and oil industry? Because he can. And because it increases our dependence on international energy sources, which globalizes our interests and diminishes our sovereignty by keeping us, and making us MORE dependent on foreign energy resources which can be used as a blunt instrument to force the American public into "globalizing" (becoming the whipping-boy of angry Marxists who want to make an example of us to enforce proper Marxist obedience) and kowtowing to the rest of the planet because the US has been bad and needs to be chastened and punished.
Fuck that.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
Brain dead comes to mind.
Seems 1 meter sea level rise by 2100 is now a few mm.
No complaints about the natural gas industry as long as it replaces coal plants and last time I checked the US is approaching energy independence on that aspect.
Last time I checked GE and Westinghouse nukes were US based....carbon neutral too.
Europe manages a 55 mpg fleet standard - more than twice that of the US....seems the same technology is available in the US....that smacks of incompetence.
Bottom line the right wingdings are seriously in the way of the US catching up to the rest of the planet......on a variety of fronts.
Seems 1 meter sea level rise by 2100 is now a few mm.
No complaints about the natural gas industry as long as it replaces coal plants and last time I checked the US is approaching energy independence on that aspect.
Last time I checked GE and Westinghouse nukes were US based....carbon neutral too.
Europe manages a 55 mpg fleet standard - more than twice that of the US....seems the same technology is available in the US....that smacks of incompetence.
Bottom line the right wingdings are seriously in the way of the US catching up to the rest of the planet......on a variety of fronts.
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- Warren Dew
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
It's more about misplaced priorities. Europe manages a high fuel economy standard because they're willing to have gasoline prices twice as high as in the U.S. due to higher taxes. In the U.S., the Democrats refuse to do that because gasoline taxes are not progressive enough for them.macdoc wrote:Europe manages a 55 mpg fleet standard - more than twice that of the US....seems the same technology is available in the US....that smacks of incompetence.
AGW deniers nonsense post of the day
yah
that has got to be one of the more ludicrous bits of nonsense I've heard in a while...
Let's see it cost me less to drive a 1,000 KM in Europe than the US and that's somehow becuz of their higher taxes.....


Let's see it cost me less to drive a 1,000 KM in Europe than the US and that's somehow becuz of their higher taxes.....




Resident in Cairns Australia • Current ride> 2014 Honda CB500F • Travel photos https://500px.com/p/macdoc?view=galleries
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
Top MIT scientist: Newest UN climate report is ‘hilariously’ flawed
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/29/top-m ... z2gN0hayZN

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/29/top-m ... z2gN0hayZN
“I think that the latest IPCC report has truly sunk to level of hilarious incoherence,” Dr. Richard Lindzen told Climate Depot, a global warming skeptic news site. “They are proclaiming increased confidence in their models as the discrepancies between their models and observations increase.”
Meaning their models are totally wrong, as are any predictions made using that model. Yet they are more and more confident that they are right the more wrong they are“Their excuse for the absence of warming over the past 17 years is that the heat is hiding in the deep ocean,” Lindzen added. “However, this is simply an admission that the models fail to simulate the exchanges of heat between the surface layers and the deeper oceans.”
However, it is this heat transport that plays a major role in natural internal variability of climate, and the IPCC assertions that observed warming can be attributed to man depend crucially on their assertion that these models accurately simulate natural internal variability,” Lindzen continued. “Thus, they now, somewhat obscurely, admit that their crucial assumption was totally unjustified.”

A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.
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A VERY INCONVENIENT PAUSE
Just to be a bit more specific about what people are actually claiming.
Alarmists claim that MORE heat is being trapped now, than sixteen years ago. Because there is a lot more CO2 in the atmosphere than there was sixteen years ago. So because there has been no warming of the atmosphere in that time, they have to explain where that heat has gone. So up pops this theory that it's gone into the deepest ocean.
It's not in the shallow oceans, we have figures for that. We don't have figures for the deepest ocean, so they have plumped for that. Why? Not because there is evidence for it, but because it's the only reservoir left, that we can't measure.
So, just understand that this isn't a scientific answer. It's a desperate answer. If the heat isn't there, they've got it COMPLETELY wrong.
BUT, the natural consequence of that answer, is that there is a mechanism for removing heat from the atmosphere, and transferring it into the deep ocean, without heating up the shallow levels which are constantly monitored.
How do you get to C, from A, without passing through B ?
And how come this wasn't happening at all, till 1997 ?
This is a very mysterious process, which doesn't seem possible, and didn't happen at all till the start of the inconvenient current warming pause.
Alarmists claim that MORE heat is being trapped now, than sixteen years ago. Because there is a lot more CO2 in the atmosphere than there was sixteen years ago. So because there has been no warming of the atmosphere in that time, they have to explain where that heat has gone. So up pops this theory that it's gone into the deepest ocean.
It's not in the shallow oceans, we have figures for that. We don't have figures for the deepest ocean, so they have plumped for that. Why? Not because there is evidence for it, but because it's the only reservoir left, that we can't measure.
So, just understand that this isn't a scientific answer. It's a desperate answer. If the heat isn't there, they've got it COMPLETELY wrong.
BUT, the natural consequence of that answer, is that there is a mechanism for removing heat from the atmosphere, and transferring it into the deep ocean, without heating up the shallow levels which are constantly monitored.
How do you get to C, from A, without passing through B ?
And how come this wasn't happening at all, till 1997 ?
This is a very mysterious process, which doesn't seem possible, and didn't happen at all till the start of the inconvenient current warming pause.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
Yes we are. So far none of the temperature excursions planet-wide have gone outside of natural variations in temperature the earth has previously had (or been estimated to have, given the dearth of accurate temperature readings from the deep past), all the alarmism is about PREDICTED future temperature changes based on what scientists THINK is going to happen, which unfortunately for them isn't happening as they predicted previously, which makes their insistence on predicting the future rather more oracular than factual.klr wrote:"Quickly" is relative. In the context of geological time-scales, "quickly" means thousands of years, often many tens of thousands, or still more. We're not talking about that here.Seth wrote:Sure it does. The earth has both warmed and cooled quickly in the past.klr wrote: ...
Any rapid change in environmental conditions is bad, regardless of direction. Surely this does not need explaining?
Seth wrote: Surprisingly, life goes on.
Adapt or die.And equally (un)surprisingly, sometimes only after titanic upheavals, including extinction events and even mass extinctions, the effects of which may take many millions of years to play out.
Seth wrote: Of the two, however, I'm much more in favor of warming that cooling, since humanity (and just about everything else) can easily survive a warmer world, but humanity, much less civilization cannot survive a period of glaciation.
Do you think the vast majority of humanity, or technology is going to survive mile-thick ice packs covering four-fifths of the earth's land surface?WTF? Seriously, WTF? Where did you pull that one out of? That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read.![]()
Seth wrote: So, what we have is a "dire prediction" of a few degrees of warming and a few millimeters of sea-level rise in the next hundred years or more and so according to the Warmist fanatics it's time to panic and drive our economies to the brink of collapse, destroy our energy industry and pretty much go back to living in wattle-and-daub huts while grubbing in the earth with a sharp stick to avoid this "ecological catastrophe" that's going to happen no matter what we do today because, supposedly, the CO2 already in the atmosphere will be there for a couple of centuries regardless of anything we can possibly do.
Hey, looky over there, it's a FOREST, so get your head out of your ass and quit looking at trees.
Whatever it is that "must" be done doesn't have to happen tomorrow, or this year, or next year, or in the next decade, or in the next quarter-century or even more. There's ample time for calm, slow, sober, careful, accurate, non-political research and decision making rather than this highly-politicized. machiavellian manipulation and disinformation campaign intended to panic the proletariat into surrendering more and more liberty and sovereignty to the power brokers of the one-world government wannabes.
Why is Obama destroying the domestic US coal and oil industry? Because he can. And because it increases our dependence on international energy sources, which globalizes our interests and diminishes our sovereignty by keeping us, and making us MORE dependent on foreign energy resources which can be used as a blunt instrument to force the American public into "globalizing" (becoming the whipping-boy of angry Marxists who want to make an example of us to enforce proper Marxist obedience) and kowtowing to the rest of the planet because the US has been bad and needs to be chastened and punished.
Fuck that.
How's your colon looking this morning?A mindless rant which does not deserve and will not get any further attention. Neither will any further contributions of yours in this thread.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- mistermack
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
More details emerging now from the IPCC report.
New Scientist reports that they are saying that the Arctic COULD be ice-free at the September minimum, by the middle of the century.
I could have told them that. And pigs could be flying across the Arctic by the same date.
But at least it's a major row-back from the BBC telling us five years ago, that the Arctic could be clear of ice in the summer, by 2013.
The middle of the century is a long time away, and I certainly won't see it, so I'll miss the chance of saying ''I told you so'' when it arrives, and the Arctic is still full of ice.
They have also almost doubled their estimate of sea-level rise by the end of the century, to 98 cm.
Hopefully, that estimate will be as shit as all their previous estimates. Their track record is appalling.
And isn't it odd, that their most daring estimates, are the safest?
Who in the IPCC will have to answer for it, when that estimate is shown to be bollocks? Nobody. They'll all be long-dead.
They are taking the piss.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... k1QxdLUm-k
New Scientist reports that they are saying that the Arctic COULD be ice-free at the September minimum, by the middle of the century.
I could have told them that. And pigs could be flying across the Arctic by the same date.
But at least it's a major row-back from the BBC telling us five years ago, that the Arctic could be clear of ice in the summer, by 2013.
The middle of the century is a long time away, and I certainly won't see it, so I'll miss the chance of saying ''I told you so'' when it arrives, and the Arctic is still full of ice.
They have also almost doubled their estimate of sea-level rise by the end of the century, to 98 cm.
Hopefully, that estimate will be as shit as all their previous estimates. Their track record is appalling.
And isn't it odd, that their most daring estimates, are the safest?
Who in the IPCC will have to answer for it, when that estimate is shown to be bollocks? Nobody. They'll all be long-dead.
They are taking the piss.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... k1QxdLUm-k
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- Tero
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap
So the BBC was wrong. BBC is not a scientist.
Irrelevant repetition.
Irrelevant repetition.
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