Har Har Har Global warming crap

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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by klr » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:29 pm

mistermack wrote:Well, the IPCC have done what I said they'd do, and raised their '' certainty '' level from 90 to 95 percent.

How have they managed this, in the face of the weakening evidence? I was wondering how they could pull it off.

The answer is that now, they are saying that they are 95% certain that PART of the warming, from 1950, is man made. And that part is just over half. This is new. So, in effect, they are hedging their bets in a big way, but giving the impression that AGW is becoming more certain year on year.

But what does it actually mean? They still have that five percent uncertainty, so they can say, '' we told you we weren't sure '' if temperatures start to plunge. And they now have another way out. They are now claiming that mankind is responsible for just over HALF of the observed warming, not all of it. Well, they can just backtrack further on that figure.

Of COURSE more CO2 in the atmosphere will have SOME sort of effect. It is after all, a greenhouse gas. The question is, how much.
They've just cut their estimation nearly in half. Cut it in half once more, and they might even be getting close to the truth.

They are easing the emergency door open, and the engine is running in the getaway car.

One other thing that I've noticed, is that now they are talking about warming from 1950 onwards, not from 1870 ish.
I've been pointing out how ridiculous that was from the start. I haven't read the whole thing, just seen snippets, so they might still be doing it in the detailed bits, but at least it's some kind of progress towards reality.
You must be the only one seeing this report as some sort of major climb-down or weaselling out. If they were really looking to leave a back door that they could bolt through, the last thing they would have done was to raise the very headline figure that will grab Joe and Jill Public's attention, and would be used as a stick to beat them with if they did get it wrong. The far more likely explanation is that they want to use that 5% increase to grab public attention so as to focus political minds.

As to "weakening evidence". Who of us here are qualified to make such a judgement? :tea:
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by macdoc » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:36 pm

I am by proxy and there is no weakening evidence....if anything as the reports note its stronger....

The denidiots are too focused on the atmosphere when 95% of the warming is in the ocean and it is continuing to soar.

Now if you look at the ocean temps it has accelerated

Image

at the very point where atmosphere has leveled a bit. The atmosphere is a tiny fraction of the earth's physical systems.

Image

The deep ocean is picking up more heat than expected.

If you want the analysis from actual climate scientists go here

http://www.realclimate.org

and let's put this change into perspective since the last ice age....

Image

again a good article giving an overview.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... -holocene/

We were slowly drifting to a new ice age as determined by Milankovich cycles. .....you can see that drift from the Holocene Optimum ( warmest point at the hump ) until we came along with technology to mine fossil carbon then it spikes in an insane way.

There will be no "next ice age" - we killed that off....the climate is already irrevocably changed for at least 3,000 years even if we stopped C02 emissions cold which we won't.

All of the expected consequences of warming are unfolding...more intense and stronger storms...the 1 degree of increase to date means 5% more water in the atmosphere, so not more storms but more intense storms sometimes on the edge of unbelievable.

The science is sound, the heat gain is there, the timing of consequences is uncertain as these massive energy changes take hold.

As Gavin pointed out...a Hiroshima bomb a second in the ocean and a couple of us calculated earlier for ice melt in Greenland, 2000 Hiroshimas A DAY to provide the equivalent heat to melt 100 cubic KM of ice each year!!

We are inflicting change on the planet and the systems are reacting to that...sometimes in very devastating ways.

••

There is no "debate" in the science fraternity. There is a manufactured one in the media and amongst the few diehards here.

There IS a very difficult debate that IS real and that is what to do about it.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by klr » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 pm

Thanks macdoc., I was going to mention the importance of warming in the ocean; And the fact that we're headed for another Ice Age ... much too slowly I suspect.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by Tero » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:18 pm

if temperatures start to plunge.
Har har har har Har har har har

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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by mistermack » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:21 pm

klr wrote: You must be the only one seeing this report as some sort of major climb-down or weaselling out. If they were really looking to leave a back door that they could bolt through, the last thing they would have done was to raise the very headline figure that will grab Joe and Jill Public's attention, and would be used as a stick to beat them with if they did get it wrong. The far more likely explanation is that they want to use that 5% increase to grab public attention so as to focus political minds.

As to "weakening evidence". Who of us here are qualified to make such a judgement? :tea:
I don't see it as a major climb-down. If they did that, it would be sensational, and just about finish off any credibility they ever had. I heard the leak that they were going to increase the confidence figure to 95 percent, and I was just fascinated how they would attempt to justify it, given the lack of warming since the last report, and over the last sixteen years.

What they have done, is now to stress that they are only claiming that PART of the warming is man-made.
This is a completely new tack. Who could possibly disagree with them now? I certainly can't.
Increased CO2 is BOUND to have caused part of the warming. As everybody points out, it IS a greenhouse gas.

I don't think it's a major climbdown, but it's a major step towards reality. And they have slipped it in underneath the headline of their raised certainty level of 95 percent.

But actually, they have completely devalued the claim. They are 95 percent sure that man is responsible for SOME of the warming since 1950. Well, I would go even further than that, I'm 99 percent sure. Like I said, it's a greenhouse gas.
If they have backtracked to the point where I now agree with them, how is that not a reverse?

All we can disagree on now is a percentage. They say we've caused over fifty percent of the warming since 1950, and they are 95 percent sure of that.
I would say we've caused one percent, or more, of the rise. And I'm 99 percent sure of that.
The space between us is far narrower than before, but I haven't moved an inch.
klr wrote: As to "weakening evidence". Who of us here are qualified to make such a judgement? :tea:
Well, the best evidence for global warming in line with the climate models, is some global warming in line with the models. And we haven't had any for sixteen years.
I think I'm qualified to call that weakening evidence. Evert year that the climate doesn't match the model, the evidence weakens.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by Seth » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:22 pm

macdoc wrote:
There is no "debate" in the science fraternity.
Well, of course not. Like the "scientific fraternity" in Galileo's time this particular "scientific fraternity" knows on which side of the bread their butter is and they know that as long as they play along with the OWG and the IPCC the grant money will continue to flow.

Conversely, they know that supporting anything but the government-approved message will end their careers as "scientists." Maybe not hemlock or burning at the stake, but ended just the same.
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Re: Har Har Har slap in the face for AGW deniers

Post by macdoc » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:33 am

Human Influence On Climate Clear, IPCC Report Says
enlarge

A new assessment by the IPCC finds that warming in Earth's climate system is unequivocal and since 1950 many changes have been observed throughout the climate system that are unprecedented over decades to millennia. Each of the last three decades has been successively warmer at Earth's surface than any preceding decade since 1850. (Credit: © meryll / Fotolia)

Sep. 27, 2013 — Human influence on the climate system is clear. This is evident in most regions of the globe, a new assessment by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concludes.

It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century. The evidence for this has grown, thanks to more and better observations, an improved understanding of the climate system response and improved climate models.

Warming in the climate system is unequivocal and since 1950 many changes have been observed throughout the climate system that are unprecedented over decades to millennia. Each of the last three decades has been successively warmer at Earth's surface than any preceding decade since 1850, reports the Summary for Policymakers of the IPCC Working Group I assessment report, Climate Change 2013: the Physical Science Basis, approved on Friday by member governments of the IPCC in Stockholm, Sweden.

"Observations of changes in the climate system are based on multiple lines of independent evidence. Our assessment of the science finds that the atmosphere and ocean have warmed, the amount of snow and ice has diminished, the global mean sea level has risen and the concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased," said Qin Dahe, Co-Chair of IPCC Working Group I.

Thomas Stocker, the other Co-Chair of Working Group I said: "Continued emissions of greenhouse gases will cause further warming and changes in all components of the climate system. Limiting climate change will require substantial and sustained reductions of greenhouse gas emissions."

"Global surface temperature change for the end of the 21st century is projected to be likely to exceed 1.5°C relative to 1850 to 1900 in all but the lowest scenario considered, and likely to exceed 2°C for the two high scenarios," said Co-Chair Thomas Stocker. "Heat waves are very likely to occur more frequently and last longer. As Earth warms, we expect to see currently wet regions receiving more rainfall, and dry regions receiving less, although there will be exceptions," he added.

Projections of climate change are based on a new set of four scenarios of future greenhouse gas concentrations and aerosols, spanning a wide range of possible futures. The Working Group I report assessed global and regional-scale climate change for the early, mid-, and later 21st century.

"As the ocean warms, and glaciers and ice sheets reduce, global mean sea level will continue to rise, but at a faster rate than we have experienced over the past 40 years," said Co-Chair Qin Dahe. The report finds with high confidence that ocean warming dominates the increase in energy stored in the climate system, accounting for more than 90% of the energy accumulated between 1971 and 2010.

Co-Chair Thomas Stocker concluded: "As a result of our past, present and expected future emissions of CO2, we are committed to climate change, and effects will persist for many centuries even if emissions of CO2 stop."

Rajendra Pachauri, Chair of the IPCC, said: "This Working Group I Summary for Policymakers provides important insights into the scientific basis of climate change. It provides a firm foundation for considerations of the impacts of climate change on human and natural systems and ways to meet the challenge of climate change." These are among the aspects assessed in the contributions of Working Group II and Working Group III to be released in March and April 2014. The IPCC Fifth Assessment Report cycle concludes with the publication of its Synthesis Report in October 2014.

"I would like to thank the Co-Chairs of Working Group I and the hundreds of scientists and experts who served as authors and review editors for producing a comprehensive and scientifically robust summary. I also express my thanks to the more than one thousand expert reviewers worldwide for contributing their expertise in preparation of this assessment," said IPCC Chair Pachauri.

The Summary for Policymakers of the Working Group I contribution to the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report (WGI AR5) is available at www.climatechange2013.org or www.ipcc.ch.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:43 am

"
I would say we've caused one percent, or more, of the rise. And I'm 99 percent sure of that."

Please show how you worked that out for full marks, MM.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by mistermack » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:08 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:"
I would say we've caused one percent, or more, of the rise. And I'm 99 percent sure of that."

Please show how you worked that out for full marks, MM.
Exactly the same way that the IPCC worked out theirs. But I don't DESERVE full marks, because I copied from a fellow bullshitter.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by macdoc » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:12 pm

aw such a blow to the denidiots...their own hired gun shoots their nonsense dead...
Koch-Funded Study Finds ‘Global Warming Is Real’, ‘On The High End’ And ‘Essentially All’ Due To Carbon Pollution
BY JOE ROMM ON JULY 28, 2012 AT 5:31 PM
“The decadal land-surface average temperature using a 10-year moving average of surface temperatures over land. Anomalies are relative to the Jan 1950 – December 1979 mean. The grey band indicates 95% statistical and spatial uncertainty interval.” A Koch-funded reanalysis of 1.6 billion temperature reports finds that “essentially all of this increase results from the human emission of greenhouse gases.”
Via BEST.
The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Study (BEST) is poised to release its findings next week on the cause of recent global warming.

UPDATE (9 pm, 7/28): A NY Times op-ed by Richard Muller, BEST’s Founder and Scientific Director, has been published, “The Conversion of a Climate-Change Skeptic.”

Here is the money graf:
CALL me a converted skeptic. Three years ago I identified problems in previous climate studies that, in my mind, threw doubt on the very existence of global warming. Last year, following an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists, I concluded that global warming was real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct. I’m now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause.
Yes, yes, I know, the finding itself is “dog bites man.” What makes this “man bites dog” is that Muller has been a skeptic of climate science, and the single biggest funder of this study is the “Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation ($150,000).” The Kochs are the leading funder of climate disinformation in the world!
It gets better:
Our results show that the average temperature of the earth’s land has risen by two and a half degrees Fahrenheit over the past 250 years, including an increase of one and a half degrees over the most recent 50 years. Moreover, it appears likely that essentially all of this increase results from the human emission of greenhouse gases.
These findings are stronger than those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the United Nations group that defines the scientific and diplomatic consensus on global warming.
In short, a Koch-funded study has found that the IPCC “consensus” underestimated both the rate of surface warming and how much could be attributed to human emissions!
you gonna be as honest as Muller MM or just persist in your delusions?? :coffee:
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by mistermack » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:55 pm

The guy sounds a bit of a dick, if he didn't accept that there had been warming, as claimed.
I've never disputed honest measurements. Just dishonest guesswork.

I can hardly place any value on the opinion of someone who was claiming that there had been no warming.
I wouldn't value it then, and I don't value it now.

And I don't value your own logic, that so-and-so thinks this, so you should think it too.
That's the most pathetic aspect of climate activism.

If the so-and-so was Albert Einstein, I might make an exception, but only if the facts didn't contradict his opinions.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by Hermit » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:01 pm

mistermack wrote:And I don't value your own logic, that so-and-so thinks this, so you should think it too.
That's the most pathetic aspect of climate activism.

If the so-and-so was Albert Einstein, I might make an exception, but only if the facts didn't contradict his opinions.
It would also help if those opinions were about something within the field of their expertise. Einstein's last published work was a foreword to a book written by a geology professor who argued against the notion of the movement of tectonic plates.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by macdoc » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:47 pm

but only if the facts didn't contradict his opinions.
what facts are those?? .....the ones you choose to ignore???

That it's getting warmer and we're responsible??

You park yourself right in with the flat earth society on that count....'cept at least they have a sense of humour. :coffee:

BTW Bohr was correct...Einstein wrong...reality sucks sometimes
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by mistermack » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:43 am

The news is all bad today on the alarmist front.
Firstly sea-ice. It's now confirmed that the summer minimum has arrived, on september 13th, two days earlier than last year.
Meaning that the ice started growing again, two days earlier.
The official ice cover on that date was 1.97 million square miles, far removed from the predictions of '' zero arctic sea ice in the summer by 2013 '' that sparked this thread.
That means the summer ice has GROWN 653,000 square miles since last year's record low. It will now grow thicker this winter and take longer to melt next year.

Down in the Antarctic, the sea-ice reached a record high for the winter figure. Matching last year's figure, which was an all-time high. So we've got record ice down south, and increasing ice up north.
That hardly matches the story of the missing global warming ''disappearing into the oceans''.
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

Prof Judith Curry, head of climate science at the Georgia Institute of Technology, was critical about the IPCC report’s statement that confidence humans had caused most of the warming of the 20th Century had increased from 90 per cent in the last IPCC report in 2007 to 95 per cent.
‘How they can justify this is beyond me.’


So it's not just me that finds that growth in ''confidence'' ludicrously unwarranted.

Other ‘lukewarmer’ experts – scientists who do not ‘deny’ the world has warmed, partly in response to humans, but do not expect imminent catastrophe – were equally scathing.
Prof Richard Lindzen, the Alfred P Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said the IPCC had ‘truly sunk to a level of hilarious incoherence. They are proclaiming increased confidence in their models as the discrepancies between their models and observations increase.’ ...... DAVID ROSE


But as I illustrate, you don't need to be a prof to find the IPCC performance ludicrous. You just have to look at the facts and ignore the bullshit.
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Re: Har Har Har Global warming crap

Post by Seth » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:51 pm

macdoc wrote:
but only if the facts didn't contradict his opinions.
what facts are those?? .....the ones you choose to ignore???

That it's getting warmer and we're responsible??

You park yourself right in with the flat earth society on that count....'cept at least they have a sense of humour. :coffee:

BTW Bohr was correct...Einstein wrong...reality sucks sometimes
You haven't explained adequately why getting warmer is a bad thing...
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