The Syrian Invasion

[cronus]

I have never heard of the EUTimes so I hope I shouldn't be worried.

http://www.eutimes.net/2013/08/putin-or ... cks-syria/

Just to test my blood pressure.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/28/world ... html?_r=1&

Linked to this probably?

http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-w ... ews=849663

[Jason]

Russia and Syria agree to a large peace keeping force (Russian) being stationed in the country with an international oversight committee. The U.S. and the U.K. fuck off and stop trying to start another world war. Problemo solvedo.

[cronus]

Russia and Syria agree to a large peace keeping force (Russian) being stationed in the country with an international oversight committee. The U.S. and the U.K. fuck off and stop trying to start another world war. Problemo solvedo.

You haven't a chance in hell of selling a rational compromise. Not dealing with Vulcans here.

[laklak]

The Vulcan hasn't been operational since 1984.

[cronus]

The Vulcan hasn't been operational since 1984.

It all went wrong when a actor got too good at his job that year. Never had a smart population but you expect a smart political elite.

[Coito ergo sum]

Russia and Syria agree to a large peace keeping force (Russian) being stationed in the country with an international oversight committee. The U.S. and the U.K. fuck off and stop trying to start another world war. Problemo solvedo.

A Russian peacekeeping force. LOL.

I'm sure the Syrians would be just fine with Russian occupiers.

[Jason]

@Coito

Probably they would considering Russia already maintains a naval base there as well as being their main supplier of materiel. It sure is a better option than the U.S. (almost universally hated in those parts of the world) intervening unsuccessfully and interfering with Russian interests (they also trade a lot with Syria). So I'm left with your objection to a Russian peace keeping force. I suppose you think them incompetent or something?

[Cormac]

The Russians are right. This is gonna end bad.
...

It's already very bad, no thanks to Russia and China.

[Cormac]

I think things are rarely as clear as most people (and media reporting) make them out to be. Assad's regime uses chemical weapons, so they face retaliation from an outraged world... okay, that's the simple narrative, but one should always ask: what's really going on here? Yes, Obama has expressly ruled out a goal of regime change, as he rightly doesn't want to get the US involved in another of of those messes, but with any military involvement there are secondary geopolitical effects to consider. What it might mean to Iran, to Israel, to Russia, to Turkey, etc... Moral outrage at the use of chemical weapons is not the end-all-be-all of this scenario.

[Ian]

@Coito

Probably they would considering Russia already maintains a naval base there as well as being their main supplier of materiel. It sure is a better option than the U.S. (almost universally hated in those parts of the world) intervening unsuccessfully and interfering with Russian interests (they also trade a lot with Syria). So I'm left with your objection to a Russian peace keeping force. I suppose you think them incompetent or something?

I doubt they'd be incompetent, but nobody expects that of Russia, even if they're the one major power with some investments in Syria, so they'll not bother unless they felt that their investments really would go belly up (hence their opposition to strikes against the Assad regime). And those investments are likely overstated; the "naval base" Russia maintains there is only a base in the sense that they have a building or two there and a place for ships to dock from time to time. But the naval assets they can put offshore are nothing to scoff at, except perhaps in relation to what the US could put there.

[Cormac]

Russia and Syria agree to a large peace keeping force (Russian) being stationed in the country with an international oversight committee. The U.S. and the U.K. fuck off and stop trying to start another world war. Problemo solvedo.

Limiting Russian access and influence in the region is criically important - now more than ever, in my view.

Russian military boots on the ground would be a disaster.

[Jason]

Russia and Syria agree to a large peace keeping force (Russian) being stationed in the country with an international oversight committee. The U.S. and the U.K. fuck off and stop trying to start another world war. Problemo solvedo.

Limiting Russian access and influence in the region is criically important - now more than ever, in my view.

Russian military boots on the ground would be a disaster.

OK.. I'm not following you. Why?

[ronmcd]

I have never heard of the EUTimes so I hope I shouldn't be worried.

They're batshit insane. I wouldn't trust EUTimes as far as I could throw them.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/European_Union_Times

[Jason]

@Coito

Probably they would considering Russia already maintains a naval base there as well as being their main supplier of materiel. It sure is a better option than the U.S. (almost universally hated in those parts of the world) intervening unsuccessfully and interfering with Russian interests (they also trade a lot with Syria). So I'm left with your objection to a Russian peace keeping force. I suppose you think them incompetent or something?

I doubt they'd be incompetent, but nobody expects that of Russia, even if they're the one major power with some investments in Syria, so they'll not bother unless they felt that their investments really would go belly up (hence their opposition to strikes against the Assad regime). And those investments are likely overstated; the "naval base" Russia maintains there is only a base in the sense that they have a building or two there and a place for ships to dock from time to time. But the naval assets they can put offshore are nothing to scoff at, except perhaps in relation to what the US could put there.

True enough, but they could do it. The naval base might be a soviet relic, but it's still a military presence that's been maintained in Syria for 40 years or so. I think they're best positioned to take on the role of peace keeping if they could be convinced to do so.

[Cormac]

Russia and Syria agree to a large peace keeping force (Russian) being stationed in the country with an international oversight committee. The U.S. and the U.K. fuck off and stop trying to start another world war. Problemo solvedo.

Limiting Russian access and influence in the region is criically important - now more than ever, in my view.

Russian military boots on the ground would be a disaster.

OK.. I'm not following you. Why?

Various reasons.

Putin has been feeding a nationalist expansionist monster at home in the form of fascist paramilitary political youth movements, he has allied the state with the church, he has engaged in oppressive military suppression of neighbours independence, and he has been aggressive in his diplomatic interaction with both the USA and the EU.

He may have to feed that monster more by military adventures overseas - through the recovery of lost elements of "Greater Russia".

Also, control of oil suplies gives him greater leverage on pricing of Russian oil and gas supplies, and this will have a direct impact on EU states.

He is a vicious totalitarian dictator who dreams of empire.

He is, in my view, a greater threat than Islamist militants.